Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby skillll7 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:40 pm

Activating SS and getting a fatter SP bank earlier to get an easier flow of units faster is not a good argument I guess.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:05 pm

Course I do shade aug doll exchange of souls. Byebye extra sp.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:34 pm

skillll7 wrote:Activating SS and getting a fatter SP bank earlier to get an easier flow of units faster is not a good argument I guess.

I'm honestly trying to understand. How is jewel tidal ryu so much better than cath mof ryu?
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Khiruki » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:35 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:
skillll7 wrote:Activating SS and getting a fatter SP bank earlier to get an easier flow of units faster is not a good argument I guess.

I'm honestly trying to understand. How is jewel tidal ryu so much better than cath mof ryu?


Well, there's the first point that Cath-Meaning Of Failure-Ryu is interrupted by a T1 shade.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Icyglare » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:11 am

Khiruki wrote:
GonFreeces31 wrote:
skillll7 wrote:Activating SS and getting a fatter SP bank earlier to get an easier flow of units faster is not a good argument I guess.

I'm honestly trying to understand. How is jewel tidal ryu so much better than cath mof ryu?


Well, there's the first point that Cath-Meaning Of Failure-Ryu is interrupted by a T1 shade.


You can totally do +1 Refess, +2 Falkow with Cath, Emerald Carbuncle, then Ryu if you're worried about T1 shade
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Khiruki » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:27 am

Icyglare wrote:
Khiruki wrote:Well, there's the first point that Cath-Meaning Of Failure-Ryu is interrupted by a T1 shade.


You can totally do +1 Refess, +2 Falkow with Cath, Emerald Carbuncle, then Ryu if you're worried about T1 shade


You'd be 1SP short.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Peralisc9001 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:29 am

Maybe you (that thing posting from gon's account) will never understand even this most obvious fact. But that doesn't matter, everyone else understands it's broken. Now what is remaining is for people to move on and leave behind those that are mentally too rudimentary to get it.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Shadow1798 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:30 am

GonFreeces31 wrote:
skillll7 wrote:Activating SS and getting a fatter SP bank earlier to get an easier flow of units faster is not a good argument I guess.

I'm honestly trying to understand. How is jewel tidal ryu so much better than cath mof ryu?


I don't open Jewel -> Tidal -> Ryu. I open Jewel -> Moxie -> Ryu.

If you open Cath -> MoF -> Ryu, where are you even getting the Gowen levels? SS1 Lost One? That's not actually good, you're reliant on the opponent letting you play your file at that point. If that gets Tidaled you might as well surrender, the Gowen levels are never coming.

What if you need to play a Chamail or Elemental Burst early? You can't. You can't play the moxie if you open Cath. If you're playing it before Ryu, you're delaying him to turn 4. What if the opponent plays a Shade... ever? Ryu'd get pushed all the way back to turn 5! That's unacceptable. It's not any better playing it after Ryu. Ryu's the highest level unit in the file, you just wasted a Falkow level, and thusly wasting the SP you gained by playing this stupid open. Cath would actually make you even more reliant on SS1 than Jewel because of how badly she gets along with the moxie, and that's clearly horrible, because Cath is obviously much worse at activating your SS1.

What if Cath takes until turn 4 to die and your unit flow gets all messed up? Even if you don't get drained, if Cath doesn't die in the early turns you only have 1 loose SP after playing Ryu. (as opposed to the 4 loose SP you would have if you opened Jewel) What if you need to return something turn 4? You can't, because then you're isolating your own unit. Having to choose between returns and units is a great way to lose games. If Ryu dies or you get Gafced (or, god-forbid, both) you can't play anything at all. Ryu aint gonna solo their whole file!

In a rush file, SP flow is often more important than SP advantage, and the SP flow Jewel creates is so superior to Cath, playing Cath over Jewel in any rush file ought to be a crime.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Shirozaki » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:55 am

sunbunman wrote:I'm just gonna steal one of Shiro's pics...

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Why am I not surprised you still had that?
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Icyglare » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:21 am

Khiruki wrote:
Icyglare wrote:
Khiruki wrote:Well, there's the first point that Cath-Meaning Of Failure-Ryu is interrupted by a T1 shade.


You can totally do +1 Refess, +2 Falkow with Cath, Emerald Carbuncle, then Ryu if you're worried about T1 shade


You'd be 1SP short.


Oops, you're totally right, I forgot about spending 1sp for the carbuncle, hyuk.



Oh, by the way, we can also nerf Mermaid Observer, you can get Ryu with 2 sphere levels in Gowen by T3.
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