My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

Postby EvilTomato » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:25 am

AOE is not only more powerful in 2vs2, but there is also more of it, an extra file, ss included. I think that this is a huge problem and needs to be discussed. How do you prevent Ball of Flame + same turn Roar of the Flame Emperor ? Making Holy Light (or Refess) mandatory is not a good solution.

I see two fatal problems with 3x3:
1) AOE
2) limited space demands strong synergy for the two files, making random teams impossible. Coupled with shared sphere levels (easy to raise using the soul skills from both players) really favors bigs. This practically destroys rushes (unless both players use the same sub-type, again random teams ). This mode can't survive without random teams.

Normal 3x5 fixes 2), but magnifies 1).

I'm not trying to push my idea, I just want to find solutions for the this issues.

Now responses:
- yes, normal slash is a bad skill, but I'm talking about all abilities that target rows;
- starting with 3 sp gives a huge advantage to teams with the same sphere;
- the problem with the interaction between player A and D is also important, no limit on it will allow teams to completely focus on one player, that is not very fun for the player in question;
- I have no problem if 2vs2 has its on meta, it is reasonable actually, but I have a problem if the meta is limited to bigs.

By the way, English is not my native language so pardon any spelling error, I have no problem understanding English, but writing it is a different story.
EvilTomato
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:41 am

Re: My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

Postby Peralisc9001 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:11 am

Can we really conclude now for sure what the meta will be like? I still believe it will take some weeks to find out what the meta is.

Why you say bigs will be meta? Mid level files and low level rushes seem to be just as nasty in 2vs2.
~ Retired ~
perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
http://www.educatinghumanity.com/2012/0 ... anies.html
User avatar
Peralisc9001
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Agartha

Re: My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

Postby EvilTomato » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:59 pm

Yes, we can't know the meta 100%, but we can make educated guesses, as I said AOE is deadly, who is the king of AOE damage? Big Red.
What are the general weaknesses for big files (not just red)?
- gathering the initial sp: easier and faster thanks to shared sphere levels and using the first soul skills of both players;
- being outnumbered: there are more enemy units, but also the big units can come out in pairs;
- maintaining control: big units can be defended more easily, in 1vs1 the player had to chose between protection against removal, reinforcing the field or damaging the enemy, in 2vs2 this is not the case;

Now that I think about it any card can be played by both players from the team so a potential 6 Afels + 6 Word of Dalos, plus Complete Form/Noze will be too strong, even Flanking Attack on a crowded field means gg. I'm starting to think that 2vs2 is impossible to balance.
EvilTomato
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:41 am

Re: My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

Postby Scientiafide » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:44 pm

Whenever a new game is being developed, nothing is really set in stone or assured. The only way to ensure things are balanced would be through lots and lots and lots and lots (and lots) of testing. Hopefully this new game mode will be extensively tested before being released as opposed to letting us players fuddle around with it with all it's flaws for several weeks (or even months).
Image

Image
User avatar
Scientiafide
 
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:44 pm

Re: My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

Postby Peralisc9001 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:51 pm

Guesses are imo still just guesses at best. I remember predictions about tourney formats regarding metas and usually the predictions were completely wrong.

And my guess is mid files are better, as they are in the current meta.
~ Retired ~
perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
http://www.educatinghumanity.com/2012/0 ... anies.html
User avatar
Peralisc9001
 
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Agartha

Re: My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

Postby Pikeru » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:34 am

EvilTomato wrote:Yes, we can't know the meta 100%, but we can make educated guesses, as I said AOE is deadly, who is the king of AOE damage? Big Red.
What are the general weaknesses for big files (not just red)?
- gathering the initial sp: easier and faster thanks to shared sphere levels and using the first soul skills of both players;
- being outnumbered: there are more enemy units, but also the big units can come out in pairs;
- maintaining control: big units can be defended more easily, in 1vs1 the player had to chose between protection against removal, reinforcing the field or damaging the enemy, in 2vs2 this is not the case;

Now that I think about it any card can be played by both players from the team so a potential 6 Afels + 6 Word of Dalos, plus Complete Form/Noze will be too strong, even Flanking Attack on a crowded field means gg. I'm starting to think that 2vs2 is impossible to balance.

You talk as though you're taking on both opponents alone. You have a partner next to you helping with all of your plays as well. Just because AoE is considerably stronger in a format like this when BOTH opponents are playing rush, doesn't justify limiting its effectiveness, they're still not any more significantly stronger against mid and especially big. Yes, both opponents will get their 1st SS fast, but you and your partner will as well. Sure, if you're playing against duel bigs they can drop them in pairs, but you and your partner are dropping all of your cards in pairs as well, 2 big units won't defend against double units any better than a single would defend against a normal amount. This is a team format, try keeping in mind that you and your partner are both playing cards simultaneously as well, it's not just your opponents.
Image
The video BlackSun has never seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKUgX232Qwc
User avatar
Pikeru
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 7:20 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

Postby EvilTomato » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:42 pm

Pikeru wrote: 2 big units won't defend against double units any better than a single would defend against a normal amount.

Any combination of Star Dragon, Bastandorra and True Retear works much better than any one of them alone, same with other big unit and yes, this also applies to mids, the rush files suffer much more from the limited space (9 slots, but only 3 for range 1) so double the units doesn't necessarily apply. I'm starting to see how they might work, 2 of the same important unit on the field from both players (like the shrine knight that gives defense).
EvilTomato
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:41 am

Re: My idea of a 2vs2 duel and related aspects

Postby Aoi » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:53 am

I like the idea of 2 vs 2 duels, as well as being able to arrange teams. It would probably draw more players in and give more worth to some of those lesser played cards.
ImageImage
Image
User avatar
Aoi
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:50 pm
Location: Florida

Previous

Return to Safiria's Planning Bureau

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest