suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

[hexagram]

yep worthing and perilisc gave me the idea

[Pikeru]

That druggy had a degree too and he did brag about it ... >_>

People who constantly brag about things do so to compensate and prove they've yet to truly earn it. As for a PhD, it doesn't prove you're smart, it proves either you're well-educated(completely different) or your daddy is rich.

I'd like to see this thread get back on topic though. There's absolutely nothing balanced about the return mechanic and this translates to send-to-grave and remove-from-play effects as well. Firstly, it deprives your opponent of a creature for a minimum of 3 turns regardless of HP. These are: the turn it's played, the turn it's returned and the turn it's replayed. In addition, they're deprived a number of turns equal to the time between it being returned and replayed(if they don't replay it, the number of turns is infinite). In comparison, burn damage like Fire Arrow only does a single turn IF the creature has low enough HP. This is especially relevant due to the 1-card-per turn limitation, in any other game a rush file tends to pop out 2-3 creatures every turn on average. Here, those players have to deathly fear Cyclone which will deprive the victim the sum number of turns of every unit unfairly picked off. All of this is done with absolutely zero player prediction as your opponent gets to see your next creature long before it's necessary to action. People love to argue the sp makes it balanced, but this is false. The returned unit's player loses sp equal to the creature's full value with only rare exceptions(Judie), however burning out a unit will never cost the player more than 1sp: the revive cost, which may even be free. Which is the next point, a defeated unit still has 2 more lives, 2 more times it must be taken down. When a unit is returned, it's perfectly equivalent to all three times that creature would have otherwise had to be defeated normally. These are not standalone issues with the mechanic, the problem is the overall sum of all these parts.

[hexagram]

I think counter play to return

miracle fruit should give back 1sp

something like conditional open return has activated this turn.

So if it goes after return you get back your 1 sp invested in grim

But it it goes before return it is the same -opponent return misfires/wastes for 3sp and you lose the normal 1sp for playing miracle fruit.

Even add another prior conditional open gowen lvl equals 1 -reduce gowen lvl by 1 get 2sp if return activated this turn to have a similar affect but to encorage use outside of gowen files more. Also make it so the secon conditional does not work in this case and that the main open of miracle fruit always works.

Maybe a bit too complicated if so just have first conditional give back 1sp ifreturn has activated this turn on top of normal effect

[Peralisc9001]

Actually i wouldn't mind if the unit would just come back to the field after few turns.

[Peralisc9001]

bump, level 3 decks are banned from having fun in folrart

[Romdeau]

The ban will continue to remain in effect until Peralisc pays a sum of 1 million dollars to Apocoplay.

[Peralisc9001]

You mean until i buy apocoplay over and change it myself? Will do if i ever become rich.

[WhiteDragon2]

Level 3 rushes do fine against returns. Things that can't handle it are mostly limited to the synergy based files that rely on having one or two specific units fielded (e.g. buncles,orks,TGC).

[Pikeru]

Level 3 rushes do fine against returns. Things that can't handle it are mostly limited to the synergy based files that rely on having one or two specific units fielded (e.g. buncles,orks,TGC).

In other words, every level 3 rush. It's only natural that any decent deck inherently has some sort of synergy between its cards. So it sounds to me you're saying there are no level 3 rushes that don't fall victim to return abuse. However, this isn't just about "Return", this thread is regarding all cards that directly remove a creature from the field. This includes Cyclone, Gaeasoul, Alphonce, Assassin SS and even the upcoming Wandering Samurai amongst countless other abusers. Every sphere is guilty of this imbalance.

[Peralisc9001]

Here's an idea. How about we make synergy files auto loose and call it balanced?

And there are plenty of lv 3 files that have no synergy and you can still take a crap on them with returns.