suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:41 pm

Well then you two need to post something productive once in a while.
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby DeeGee » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:01 pm

Peralisc9001 wrote:Well then you two need to post something productive once in a while.


We're not on the balance team. At least I'm not. Because if I was, this would be a more enjoyable game, with less refball and less return spamming.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby angelspawns » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:10 pm

Yes, lets have another one of these. The last ones were missing a DG to suggest a more overpowered version for it. Quite entertaining! (sarcasm)


Meanwhile we all know the 'balance'team won't nerf anything about the returnmechanism itself. They chose to work around it.
They nerf the units around it. They nerf the SP battle around it.
Some more stuff gets implemented like the Grim immune units. Refess gets SP gen Opens. Lawtia gets more bang out of their grim-removal unit. Gowen gets... what does Gowen get actually? Lvl raising units and Grims i guess? Well w/e, they dun depend as much on synergy with most standalone units and grimspam of their own.

I do get annoyed by failed attempts though to work around the problem. They look at top RP files with Returning in them and decide... it's OwlSage that should pay for it! OwlSage is in them aswell! Must be for his.... RNG... hmm yes... clearly Returning together with his 2Rng is too stronk with this 1.

And lets take a look at Refess next! It seems to struggle the most when a key unit is removed from the field. Lets give it... a Grimbane closeskill! Lets see how the passive Cath->Owl->SP/Return opening deals with that Lvl1 "problem" on the field.
Oh, and more +SP opens on Lvl4's and 5's too please. You know, to help out Lvl1~3 rushes fight that earlygame for SP and field presence.



Better suggest more Grim-immune units, rush SP gens and grimhate if you want to change anything. They are trying. A few good counter additions accompanied with the regulair trial and error. ;/ The new Carbuncle Ex was good! (next to EX SonicSeraph it's a Lvl3 with +1SP Open)
Slowly return mechanism is getting a little weaker. Unfortunatly the real thing making FALKOW AS A WHOLE weaker at the moment is the vast amount of openphase damagespam we're currently suffering. Together with their units getting low HP (so in their eyes it stays possible for other rushes to put up a fight dispite the returning dominance over them) we have the wonderful mess called Falkow that you see now.
Last edited by angelspawns on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Romdeau » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:11 pm

The amount of sarcasm and bashing in these types of threads-how would it surprise anyone that none of us take these threads seriously and respond? We'd just be making ourselves a target more than having a reasonable conversation with the public about these types of decisions.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:15 pm

It's true. But at some point it needs to be discussed. Tho merely suggesting something shouldn't have such responses. A suggestion is an idea, not necessarily a complete one.


If this mechanic is indeed interesting as anima claims, then whatever, have it at least on some other cards.
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
http://www.educatinghumanity.com/2012/0 ... anies.html
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby DeeGee » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:17 pm

angelspawns wrote:Yes, lets have another one of these. The last ones were missing a DG to suggest a more overpowered version for it. Quite entertaining!


Meanwhile we all know the 'balance'team won't nerf anything about the returnmechanism itself? They chose to work around it.
They nerf the units around it. They nerf the SP battle around it.
Some more stuff gets implemented like the Grim immune units. Refess gets SP gen Opens. Lawtia gets more bang out of their grim-removal unit. Gowen gets... what does Gowen get actually? Lvl raising units and Grims i guess? Well w/e, they dun depend as much on synergy with most standalone units and grimspam of their own.

I do get annoyed by failed attempts though to work around the problem. They look at top RP files with Returning in them and decide... it's OwlSage that should pay for it! OwlSage is in them aswell! Must be for his.... RNG... hmm yes... clearly Returning together with his 2Rng is too stronk with this 1.

Lets take a look at Refess next! It seems to struggle the most when a key unit is removed from the field. Lets give it... a Grimbane closeskill! Lets see how the passive Cath->Owl->SP/Return opening deals with that Lvl1 "problem" on the field.
Oh, and more +SP opens on Lvl4's and 5's too please. You know, to help out Lvl1~3 rushes fight that earlygame for SP and field presence.



Better suggest more Grim-immune units, rush SP gens and grimhate. They are trying. A few good counter additions accompanied with the regulair trial and error. ;/ The new Carbuncle Ex was good! (next to EX SonicSeraph it's a Lvl3 with +1SP Open)
Slowly return mechanism is getting a little weaker. Unfortunatly the only real thing making FALKOW AS A WHOLE weaker at the moment is the vast amount of openphase damagespam we're currently suffering. Together with their units getting low HP, so it's stays possible for other rushes to put up a fight dispite the returning dominance over them.


You realize that a rush that dedicates a bunch of grims to beating other rushes should, *gasp*, be able to beat other rushes? Is this a difficult concept to grasp? Refess is not supposed to be competitive with Falkow on a rush vs. rush basis unless it also includes that many anti-rush grims.

As for Pera: if you want returns nerfed, then give Falkow units that don't depend on its cover just to be able to survive. Elite Fencer, Emana, Mage Knight, and so many others explicitly depend on having returns shield them from damage.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby angelspawns » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:18 pm

I thought you enjoyed sarcasm Rom?.. ;)
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby DeeGee » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:21 pm

Romdeau wrote:The amount of sarcasm and bashing in these types of threads-how would it surprise anyone that none of us take these threads seriously and respond? We'd just be making ourselves a target more than having a reasonable conversation with the public about these types of decisions.


Except Pera's not arguing in good faith. Refess and Lawtia are already on the top of the roost as of set 11, Gowen's complete junk after you can't turn to a single Gowen strategy without finding something that's been nerfed. Gowen Fierte? Nerf on RFA/Rhino/Bringer. BKR? Nerf on Jack and Bringer. Gowen rush? Nerf on pixies or Bringer or Rhino (depending on the version). Pixies? Obvious. Bigs? Bringer.

I think the problem is that Pera just doesn't want to lose to return--ever. I don't know what sort of game he envisions, but whatever it is, it's bound not to be fun if it's just an endless bashfest.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:42 pm

Romdeau wrote:The amount of sarcasm and bashing in these types of threads-how would it surprise anyone that none of us take these threads seriously and respond? We'd just be making ourselves a target more than having a reasonable conversation with the public about these types of decisions.

This. This is why serious conversations never happen between the people in power (Rom, Logress) and the general public.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby angelspawns » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:05 pm

That's the enviroment they create by never responding AT ALL. The signals we get from higher up are "we are going to ignore everything you say and all issues that is bothering the masses. We forever stay silent why we did things or the data that we got.'

It's absolutely dead silent. How can you blame the community from making their own conclusions and not get a little sarcastic, when all we CAN do is making wild guesses why OwlSage got that damn nerf?


No. Rom and Logress get everything they ask for. If they wanted to have a normal conversation they'd be giving out insight information 'behind the cards' like LoL does when they create a new Champion. They'd help people understand their track of mind, regardless if they'd agree or not with it. Right now all i can say is you guys just went and did "whatever". And to be honest, i also think that's byfar the best sumerization of what's actually going on untill proven otherwise.
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