Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

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Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby ValVolt » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:57 am

This is about an idea that came up while discussing with DanTheTimid on this thread: http://alteil.com/forum/index.php?f=19& ... c&start=20

I thought it'd be better to shape it in its own topic, so here it is.

In two words, it's about helping players ramp-up (namely), by offering them kind of 'puzzle' games. These would consist in a one or two turns standard game, with pre-set fields and limited options, against a (really really basic) AI (that would basically be pre-programmed for the puzzle).

Goal: help players interactively discover game mechanics
Goal: help mid-level players discover card combos / encourage them to get creative with their cards / help them transition to Folrart

These puzzles could be offered as free tutorials (for the most basic ones) and as 'side-quests' that could maybe be bought by the player. They would come with a fixed reward: for example there could be five 'tutorial' puzzles that would grant you your 5 extra starter cards (the extras cards that for now come with the default deck).

One simple example of a puzzle:
- It is turn 30
- The AI has one Salamander in play, and 1 LP.
- You have two Shades in play, 3 SP, 1 LP, a Lawtia sphere level of 3, and a Life Conversion card.
The puzzle is this: win the game !

If you play Life Conversion, you will run out of SP and won't be able to Iczer attack.
In order to win you need to *Skip* and then to attack with the Shades.

Obvious for all readers, but helpful for complete beginners !
This is really simple but should give you the idea :)

So this thread is for you to:
- tell what you think about the idea
- propose some puzzles already !
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby Azul » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:30 am

Might be helpful. Concerned with codeable aspect, but that's not something I'd know about.

Not good at making puzzles that aren't flat out obvious to experienced players, but tutorials I can come up with.

RNG/Move

Armed Citizens in 1st row, Folrart Shield Knight in 2nd row, Priestess of the Holy Weapon in 3rd row. Opponent has... I dunno, an Undine or something in 3rd row. Goal is kill the Undine this turn.

Counterskills

Opponent has a Highland-born Hunter, 20 hp. You have a Folrart Guardian with only 30 hp left. Your only card in your File is a Salamander. Your opponent does have that 1 SP he needs to one-shot your Guardian, so your goal is to save your Guardian and kill the Hunter.
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby DWildstar » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:34 am

This sounds like a great idea that I'd love to play. Unfortunately I think the logistics of creating this would require more staff and lots of time. Also I think due to the nature of random in the game the puzzles could only go so far. Great idea though!
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby ValVolt » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:46 pm

Azul: cool stuff !

DWildStar: if we consider 1-turn games where the opponent has nothing to do at all, this is immediately playable I assume. It's like 'resuming' a game from a certain state snapshot. Should be (at 90%) straightforward to implement.
After, if not implemented, we could still just do this: screenshots of the game with the specific 'puzzle' set up, and make up a QCM-based questionnaire out of it.

Powerpoint-based Alteil FTW :lol:

Keep up the good ideas coming, I really like the Counter puzzle since this is already advanced way of thinking...

Vlt.
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby Mavel » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:11 pm

This is a great idea.

Also, every time you could also get a new card is to unlock some new puzzles.

For example, get (buy or prize) Lapierre, this gives me access to 3 new puzzle with which Lapierre.
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby Gota » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:43 pm

This would be so much work for the current staff though, and it'll probably come in the form of events/contest as well, since implementing it into the actual game would be O_O

It is definitely a great idea though. But as Dwild pointed out, the random target hitting aspect would be hard, thus the puzzles would have to eliminate all of the randomness (i.e. by using pinpoint, or setting restrictions in each challenge specifically stating what target will hit what if attacks happen) Which would take even more time to think of by the staff.

If it does come as a form of contest/event, then choosing a winner would be a problem, since multiple people would get the same answer. So either the winner(s) will be a random lotto drawing of the names, or it'll be a very small prize of like (for example)50 gran for every winner.
Image
Logress wrote:Gota: I just looked at your lottery logs... I officially declare you the most unlucky man on earth.
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby ValVolt » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:44 am

Mavel: cool indeed !

Gota: I thought about that more in an effort to stimulate people's brainz rather than for the actual gain they could get out of it. As you mentioned, due to the random effect, the puzzles will have to either work whatever target / AGI order gets resolved, or be setup in order to remove / restraint the effects (like units with different AGI and RNG put in certain positions)

However, we could setup an event where players would be challenged to... create the best puzzle ! :mrgreen:
Now THAT would be an interesting contest.

And of course, all puzzles would then be made available to players, either to be played like Mirage Master, with a possible 'unlock' mechanism as proposed by Mavel, or - a contrario - the puzzles could be made so that once you solve them, you earn a specific 1-star card or a specific avatar item?

Vlt.
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby Logress » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:51 am

That's a really good idea.
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby Illyasviel » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:11 pm

Hmm, I like the idea, although I have no idea how difficult or easy it would be to make.

Although, speaking of the idea of games, the first thing I thought of when I read the title was a puzzle. Like chop a card into a bunch of jigsaw pieces, and put it back together. But that wouldn't really help people learn the game or anything.
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Re: Proposal idea: "puzzle" games for beginners and mid players

Postby Logress » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:55 am

It would draw people's attention to some of the cute touches in the artwork though. Has anyone noticed exactly what the gentleman in the Pure Terror card is afraid of?
"Scissors are overpowered. Rock is fine." -Paper
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