rarity-1 card store

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby Pond » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:35 am

I get tons of gem monks. He's a rarity -1.
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby Multi » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:27 am

I was just kinda thinking... Recycle rates for cards aren't a fixed rate right?

1* = 5 gran
2* = 10 gran
3* = 30 gran
4* = 150 gran
5* = 300 gran

so, in this case,

5* = 60 - 1* | 30 - 2* | 10 - 3* | 2 - 4*
4* = 30 - 1* | 15 - 2* | 5 - 3*
3* = 6 - 1* | 3 - 2*
2* = 2 - 1*

1* = 10 point cards
2* = 20
3* = 30
4* = 40
5* = 50

so in this case,
5* = 5.00 - 1* | 2.50 - 2*| 1.67 - 3*| 1.25 - 4*
4* = 4.00 - 1* | 2.00 - 2*| 1.33 - 3*
3* = 3.00 - 1* | 1.50 - 2*
2* = 2.00 - 1*

Depending on how you look at this data, you can make all sorts of arguements. For the sake of my own, I want to establish that the smallest unit in the gran model, 5 gran is infinitely smaller than the smallest unit in the point card model, which is 10 point cards.

The first area I want to point out is the discrepancy between the values between rarity cards in the recycle model and point card model. In the gran model, a 5* is worth 60 times that of a 1*, yet in the point card model a 5* is only worth 5 times as much as a 1*. I think looking at it this way, this concretely displays why everyone feels the 10 point card cost of a 1* is absurdly high.

Anyways, the idea of adjusting the point card prices has probably already been proposed, so this is just a suggestion on how it should be adjusted. It's pretty simple, maybe it's already been thought of, but why not have the ratios for the point cards be adjusted to something like the recycle rates?

for example:

5* = 60 point cards = 300gran
4* = 30 point cards = 150 gran
3* = 6 point cards = 30 gran
2* = 2 point cards = 10 gran
1* = 1 point card = 5 gran
since point cards are treated as 1*'s when recycled

Of course, now that I've written it out, it looks kinda absurd. :V But that general premise can't be a bad idea. Point cards are really difficult to get, putting aside events that only a tiny handful of people can win compared to the totality of the user base.

In all honesty, I don't even really think this is a completely horrible example. I've only played about 100 matches, but I have around an 82% win ratio, and I've played MM a few times for FM, but I still only have around 2800 FM. That's 1 single point card I could buy after 100 matches. Putting aside events that are only about once a month, which only grace probably less than 1-2% of the playerbase, it's pretty much impossible for anyone to buy point cards with FM outside of events.

I mean seriously, what's with putting a single point card in a new account for anyways? With this idea, a new player can use that single point card now to get something their starter might've needed. I don't think anyone would argue that making 1* cards cost only 1 point card would ruin anything, because they're common anyways. You can probably get almost all the 1*'s from the 10gran lotto if you waited long enough. The question that would have to be answered is, 2500FM is worth how much gran? It's difficult to say since you can't buy FM in any way like gran. I don't think anyone with a very large abundance of point cards would waste their time trying to make sets from 1*'s with them because either 1. they know they can save up and buy higher rarity or 2. they've probably already been playing a while and have nearly completed their 1* collection. The problem with even the common 1*'s is that, as you get closer and closer to completing it, the harder it is to get the card you want from lotto or packs, but the amount of gran you need to spend just keeps shooting higher and higher because of that and you end up just having to recycle cards you have 3 of already probably. The rate of return compared to cost increases, although you have chances to get higher rarity cards as well. This is probably brilliant and very profitable for the company, so I can't blame them, it's probably obvious to anybody who wants to make money to maintain this kind of model.

Using that example, the 5*'s would cost more than they do now, but that's a case of you gotta give a little to get a little. I'm not foolish enough to think that alteil will actually implement this idea, but I would like to think the devs would take this suggestion to heart.

On a lighter note, seriously, what the hell is with that single point card in a new account? It's such a mockery :V 10 point cards for a single 1*? Just flat out earning the FM for that is really insane. I don't want to hear the excuses of events because, aside from the recent batora one, only a tiny tiny amount of players benefit from those prizes.
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby InigoMontoya » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:58 am

That looks familiar. I believe Peralisc2 proposed something similar (Point Card = 5 gran relationship) about 6 months ago. Peralisc, do you remember that?
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby Peralisc2 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:38 am

I don't know exactly what i said, but i am sure i said lots of time i want them to make it so that you can buy point cards with gran too!
Alteil is pretty much well balanced. Sometimes you loose and sometimes the enemy wins.
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby Skewer » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:23 am

I was under the impression that 5* do cost 60 point cards. But yes, the point card redemption ratios are pretty messed up to the point where the only things worth saving up for are the 5*. I mean, if we used the ratios Multi calculated, I feel that this game would be much more noob-friendly since it would allow them to move forward from their starters rather than waiting for playable sets to appear randomly in the lottery. Perhaps higher retention rates would follow. Considering how difficult it is to acquire point cards, I feel that a 1* is a worthy compensation for playing and winning 84 battles (84 * 30 = 2520 FM). As for the other end of the spectrum, those who have been saving up for 5* should have no complaints seeing as how they still need the same number of point cards as before to redeem them.
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby Xovian » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:13 pm

I agree with the other posters. There should be more ways to get the cards people want, with out trading, whether its buying or some tweaks to current systems that affect how free cards are gotten. I'm sure the GM's and other Alteil staff have had thoughts and ideas of their own that would be comparable to what has been said here. Only time will tell though.

As to one posters comment, i dont answer people who make unnecessary comments by trying to be a smart ****.
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby Otonashi » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:23 pm

If you can't answer, just say so. You don't have to get all defensive. =/
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby luckysvn777 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:16 pm

The point card system is really the way to go for "getting specific cards".... however, the system does need a massive change... but then again I think the GM's know that already.
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby Multi » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:43 am

I think a reform of the point card store prices would be more efficient than changing how easy it is to gain point cards, just because of the disparity in value between 1*'s vs 5*'s. Like I wrote in my ridiculously long post earlier, that i'm sure was tl;dr for many, in the point card store a 5* is only worth 5x as much as a 1* but as far as recycling goes to show, a 5* is worth 60x more than a 1*.

Changing how easy it is to get point cards wouldn't change that, and I think most people would still feel it would be a waste to use up point cards on 3* and lower when they would now be more easily be able to get a 4* or 5* with easier to get point cards.

My idea would give new players something to use that single point card they get on, and like someone else wrote winning 80 some odd games = 2500FM seems like a feat worthy of choosing a 1* from being able to purchase a 1* card with 1 point card.

It's never gonna happen though, since there's no profit in it for the company. Because point cards aren't able to be bought with money, they're only given out through FM and events, the point card store is a completely 100% unprofitable area of the game. Making it easier for people to specific cards would only reduce sales of people buying specific packs to get said rares. Although in my idea, 5*'s increase in point card price. The people who spend hundreds or more on this game hunting for 5*'s might even oppose my idea since it doesn't benefit them either. It's my belief that sales wouldn't be reduced from a cheaper point card store as long as the 5*'s and 4*'s are 60 and 30 point cards, since it's practically impossible to get a 3 set from that. I don't know if people spend lots of money to try to get 1-3*'s from packs/boxes either though.

Going off tangent a bit however, I think this would be a good idea to solve the stagnation between levels with no card level up choices (because of cheaper point card store prices, your FM gained would still entitle you to a "level up card" so to speak). It completely boggles my mind why there isn't a level up card selection for each level. In practically every game out there, a level up means you get some kind of level up bonus, but in alteil nearly 90% of level ups are completely worthless and pointless (we all know that levels have nothing to do with player strength, RP is a better indicator but isn't perfect either). It is really daunting to have to wait 10 levels to get a level up card, you might as well just increase the xp needed to level up so that it's the same as the 10 you need to get that level up card. I think it'd be nice to give SOMETHING, like a point card or a level up card selection between 1-2* or ANYTHING even extra FM or a potion. It's generous to offer free cards in general, and with how it is, you get a lot for the first 15 levels or so, but giving players something to look forward to on level up I think is a very good motivator to increase player activity. I'm sure this extremely obvious point has been noticed however, so i'm not keeping my fingers crossed for a response to it.
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Re: rarity-1 card store

Postby Skewer » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:14 am

Just because its not profitable in the short run does not make it 100% profitable. If it can encourage more people to play, then they may very well earn more money. If just a tenth of the people who drop out of the game stay and spend like $5, then POOF! they just made some money. As for the chances of decreasing profits, the number of point cards required to get 5* would not have changed so you would still need to blow just as much money as before trying to complete your set. Unless of course for some reason you already have all the 5* and are just missing a 4*... but really at that point, you've probably spent so much money that Alteil giving you a break might even benefit them more. Its a well known business tactic to treat your regulars well, since losing them would hurt your cash flow.
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