Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:02 pm

Currently Alteil is the only "card game" where you can spend real money and get nothing.
I don't know about the rest of the player base, but i find something inherently wrong with that.


Last time I checked, you can certainly buy packs in real life and get nothing as well. The giant stash of Yu-gi-oh cards under my desk attests to that.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby beezneez » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:17 pm

I like this idea but i don't think the GM's will go for it. How about a trade counter where Iczers can exchange "spare" cards with other players at the same star rating or less?
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby ANIMEniac » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:32 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:
Currently Alteil is the only "card game" where you can spend real money and get nothing.
I don't know about the rest of the player base, but i find something inherently wrong with that.


Last time I checked, you can certainly buy packs in real life and get nothing as well. The giant stash of Yu-gi-oh cards under my desk attests to that.


heh agreed. Maybe i should recycle my RL cards as well....

At least with Alteil I never have to worry about storage space for the cards.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Xovian » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:51 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:
Currently Alteil is the only "card game" where you can spend real money and get nothing.
I don't know about the rest of the player base, but i find something inherently wrong with that.


Last time I checked, you can certainly buy packs in real life and get nothing as well. The giant stash of Yu-gi-oh cards under my desk attests to that.


And your comparing those cards that can be traded for something you do want. Not a randomized chance to maybe, hopefully, and possibly get what you want, but out right TRADE for what you want. Singles are often sold at every card shop across the country, regardless of rarity as well.

You're also trying to compare apples to oranges as well. While those cards may not be in high regard, they still have a monetary value, and it does increase over time. Coming from one of the most successful TCG's, I can attest to this. I use to have a number of Beta (which i still do), Limited and Revised sets of Magic the Gathering. Care to guess what my common beta lands are worth, or what i've had people offer to trade me for them?

While in other card games you may feel there is nothing, with time they are something, because you physically have them to use, trade, or if nothing else build a bon-fire with em. These are all things you can not do with Alteil cards. You cant trade them, they dont increase in any form of value.

Suffice to say, i disagree with this assessment of yours.
They are not comparable.

I admit, the space requirement, or lack there of does have its perks. So i wont argue that.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:20 pm

a.) Good luck finding somewhere to trade your common cards... or even your "lowest rarity available in packs" cards... that aren't already very good. There's a reason why they are stuck in a box and never been touched. They were truly a waste of money.

b.) Beta and limited are rare cases that obviously don't follow the norm. They really can't be used as examples. The monetary value of most common cards are insignificant, and looking right now, they are still worthless. Their value has not increased in the slightest.. if anything, they've decreased.


Alteil cards have value too. Even the most common cards can be recycled for gran.. not to mention the fact you're being paid for doing nothing every week. That's 5 less gran you have to buy in real life per card. Obviously, they can't make it so you can get real life money back (here come the hackers). So we trade that aspect for the ability to always have someone to play with, direct interaction with people working on the game, "free gran", and a lack of need to store things. Not to mention that $1.50 per pack (or less in bulk) is a lot cheaper than any pack i've ever bought. I'd say that's a fair deal.

Oh, and let's not get me started about how here one cannot "lose" or "have stolen" the money investment you've made. Some jerk stole my Mirror Force... cost me $40 to replace. How was I supposed to suspect my brother's friend was a thieving jerk? But oops, now i've practically made a negative investment...


c.) A lack of buying institution is something different entirely. You said there are no other card games where your money can become worthless. Packs in real life are an example of them.


You're right though. We are comparing apples to oranges. Don't forget, though, that it was you, not me, who made the comparison in the first place.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Xovian » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:34 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:c.) A lack of buying institution is something different entirely. You said there are no other card games where your money can become worthless. Packs in real life are an example of them.

I've already disagreed with this, so i wont comment further.

luckysvn777 wrote:You're right though. We are comparing apples to oranges. Don't forget, though, that it was you, not me, who made the comparison in the first place.

Umm, no I didnt.
luckysvn777 wrote:Last time I checked, you can certainly buy packs in real life and get nothing as well. The giant stash of Yu-gi-oh cards under my desk attests to that.

You did. I didnt bring up TCG's at all until after the fact.
My earlier comments only bring up the fact that there needs to be a more reliable non luck based way to obtain specific cards (even the current point system is luck based). If you are arguing about this, then I have nothing else to say to you, as simply put, we aren't going to agree so there isn't a further need to discuss it between the two of us. Besides, i'm sure there are others out there who will also have comments on the discussion.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby lupos » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:46 pm

Heres the real crux of the situation. You can have multiple accounts. You can change passwords and email address. You can make multiple with one email address. You get free in game money every day. If there was trading, even of equal star level, people would still exploit it to make one super account. It would be a lot of work but how much would that be worth? Quite a lot i imagine. Then people could also sell accounts. This game is built to be free for most.

As for the fixing the price of the point cards i kind of agree. I do think the spread is a bit odd... one 4 star is probably really worth more than 4 1 stars. The issue though is that that could SERIOUSLY cut into out overall sales. We have to be very careful because if we do ever decrease the costs of things I'm pretty sure you all would take up pitch forks if we then turned around a month later and cranked em back up. If it is too easy to get the 1 star of your choice people are going to be even more likely to just copy each others decks. We need to ensure that people use it to "finish a set" and not to just pick and choose exactly what they want. We don't ever want people to be able to just get exactly what they want because that makes it to easy to not be creative and for the meta to get stale.

Anyway, need to head out for the day. Just want to reiterate, we do have ideas on how to give you guys more point cards. We are working on it but some THINGS take priority. More on this soon.... hopefully.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:50 pm

Your generalization applies to irl card games too... if you wanted to specify just online-type games, you should have done so... of course, to the best of my knowledge, they don't have any value irl too, so I imagine the same situation applies.

But i'm being technical here. If you don't want to discuss further, someone else can take up the slack... I have my opinion, ima stick to it.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Xovian » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:36 pm

Lupos,

I'm not personally talking about the point card system, and only that system.
As you mention, as has DanTheTimid, that the amount of points based on rarity seems off, but its overall understood that there wont be a massive influx of cards to people because of this system. Thats perfectly fine, as i recall how many people kept wanting to get that last Salamander for the Gowen starter back in the day? I think many people realize, that the point card system is pretty much for that goal when building files. Other then some of the values on a given rarity, I dont think a majority of people really even desire that to change. I could be wrong, but thats from what i've seen.

My major concern is there are not many options when it comes to predetermined cards similar to the reinforcement packs or Ex when they are available. People buy these packs, both of them, because they know what they are getting. Even if the price is often considered steep by many, they are still bought regularly. This comes down to spending $$$. People that don't spend, and don't plan to, probably still wont. However those that do, are more likely to spend the same or more, because they know what they will be getting (its the same thing as every single account that has bought EX). Maybe I havn't been all that clear in my previous posts. So i will try to clarify.

There needs to be a way people can buy the cards they want. Not random, not luck, not by trading, not by anything other then the gran system that is already established for the game. For some reason by how your post is worded, it makes me think that the amount people will spend is going to decrease. I don't see that happening, again look at the EX sets. While some may say they need to be lower, you can also look at the reinforcement packs and you can come up with a pretty clear idea of what the "most bang for the buck" prices could be.
More total sales are always going to trump just a few big spenders (being that i was one, i understand this).

As to the argument of more people will copy other peoples files. I'm really not seeing the validity of that argument, people already do that (in some cases, in mass quantities). So what exactly is it that the GM's or other team members of the Alteil staff are expecting to be different then it already is? If there are already a lot of copy cats, does adding a way to buy specific cards change that some how? I mean, I would think, allowing such so people didnt have to copy would be an incentive to have such a system. In other words they would get the cards so they dont have to copy. Some invariably will copy, but they already do so it changes nothing in my opinion.

Some file types are going to do better then others. There is a meta in the game, everyone knows that. If it did come up that every has exactly the same file, which i dont think would happen as badly as some think, thats where the balancing changes come in. If cards are rebalanced, as they have been done previously, then I'd say the chance of even more copycats happening is slimmer then you may think. Mirror matches are also tedious, and while i may be the minority, i wouldnt want to face a majority of mirror matches either.

With the current means of free gran and point cards, no one is going to miraculously start having full play sets that hasnt already spent a good chuck of money to begin with. Even with a best case scenario. My final point is this, if people can buy what they want, even if it is slowly over time (generally in conjunction with the free ways to get gran) they are more likely to stay, and those that stay are also more likely to spend on the future sets/ex.

@Lucky,
Yea, i did mean more of online.
I'll clarify a bit. If i buy a "horse" on one of the many free online RPG's out there, guess what i get in that game?
I get a horse. Now don't get me wrong, many of them have those random boxes with the "OMG super rare item of the gods!!!" but the vast majority of items are:

You see it?
You want it?
You buy it.
Done.

I simply wish Alteil also had the option and "majority" in like fashion.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:29 pm

Alteil is a CCG though... and card games do not operate under a "want it, buy it" scheme... they operate under more of an "expected benefit" scheme... there's supposed to be risk involved, that's part of the game.


That's also why subverting the system and buying cards in real life cost so much. It means your dodging the risk, and have to pay a hefty price for that.


Thus, i'd imagine even rarity 1 cards would have to cost a bit, since you are trading "risky benefit" for $.10, with "guaranteed benefit". The guaranteed benefit would have to cost a lot more... i'd say $1-2 at minimum per card then. Maybe even more. Especially due to lack of trading, which is why common cards cost a lot less in real life games.
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