Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby worthing » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:32 pm

dont see what the point is since our opinion doesnt count but i really dont want it to be like that plus i dont see this ever really happening unless its level 1s and 2s because they will make 10x more money if they keep things the way they are perhaps. I can see this becoming an event for a day or 2 though.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Xovian » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:22 pm

worthing wrote:dont see what the point is since our opinion doesnt count but i really dont want it to be like that plus i dont see this ever really happening unless its level 1s and 2s because they will make 10x more money if they keep things the way they are perhaps. I can see this becoming an event for a day or 2 though.


Good point of view Worthing, however, you say they will make more money to keep it as it is.
I'd like to know where this assumption comes from, and its held by quite a number of people.
So I'm saying it not just to you, but anyone and everyone.

Is selling 10 packs of "you know what you are getting" earning any less (or any more money) then a randomly distributed 10 pack?
10 packs are 10 packs correct, if they are sold at the same value. Most equate the knowledge of knowing what you buy to be at a higher price already. It's somewhat expected these days.

However, most people live on a budget. The person thats going to spend 100$ or 200$ every new set is likely to do so regardless.
Those that don't spend have no incentive to do so because they know that just a chance is not worth the risk.
Simply put, if people want to gamble, they'll go to Vegas. A CCG (that is non-trade able) should not feel like you won the lottery if you happen to get a card you will actually use, regardless of rarity. There's really little incentive to actually buy, granted this is just my opinion.

The problem right now that most see and has been an on going problem is keeping the player base.
Sure we get the runs of a mass surge of new comers, now and then, but how many of them actually stay?
If even half of all the accounts stayed, and only spent that 100-200$ (or less, lets even say 50$ and no more) per set, then revenue would be up. The normal spenders would still spend (admittedly, maybe a bit less), but the newcomers would also be spending and the incentive of not basing what they buy on sheer luck will promote more buying from those old and new. It also entices people to stay, the more that stay, means the more that spend. Thats a simple economic principle. Some of the biggest super giants in retail attest to that, Wallmart being a major one. Volume/Quantity brings in gain, even if at some levels there is a slight loss. The gains will out perform the losses, and in fact be more successful in the long haul.

In the case of Alteil, by enticing more buyers, even if the "usual" buyers end up spending a bit less, the sales from more people are going to do more then make up the losses. It's a net gain in the case of Alteil. We have more buyers, we have more players (common complaint of folrart), and more people staying with the game because they dont have to spend what i did (during set1-set2) just so they can even feel competitive.

As its been said, we may not be able to change a thing, but at least if we the players, GM's and others actually talk about it, then no one will be able to say we didn't try. If a business model seems to be coming short (or you know it could do better), change, adapt; move forward. Every successful business, game, and many things in life do exactly that, those that dont fall by the way side and are eventually forgotten.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Azul » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:29 pm

I only disagree with choosing to make an analogy to retail stores such as Walmart due to the fact Walmart sells goods one would wish to buy when one is not rich and Alteil sells goods one would wish to buy when you are.

I think retention would be significantly better if newbies had the tangible belief that they could make the deck they want (if only because the one friend I did talk to about this game agrees that the lottery is stupid). And point cards don't do that because anyone who sees the number 2500 will have their eyes bug out.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Xovian » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:37 pm

Azul wrote:I only disagree with choosing to make an analogy to retail stores such as Walmart due to the fact Walmart sells goods one would wish to buy when one is not rich and Alteil sells goods one would wish to buy when you are.


I think you missed my point.
My analogy is that more people will spend on Alteil if the price is right.
Cheap is often the preferred.
The cheaper it is the more it sells, the more sales, the more profits.
Pretty simple.

However your point brings up something else of interest.
Alteil only sells to the rich.
Wonder if that might explain why Folrart has generally had problems?

I think retention would be significantly better if newbies had the tangible belief that they could make the deck they want

Would cards that were not random, being sold for a fair price make that more likely?
I think it would.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Peralisc2 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:41 pm

Well i don't like they idea of trading added to the game, so i opened this thread, because i am fine with the idea of spending a lot of gran for a 5 star of your choice.

The direct exchange of cards, such as 5 star for 5 star is just plain wrong and not only does it cut into sales, but see people have groups of traders then, so what will those do that can't trade, that's wrong likethe "sell your card for gran" system (NOTE: sell your card for gran-system allows you to sell a 1 star for example to a smurf account for whatever amount of gran you want).

I only disagree with choosing to make an analogy to retail stores such as Walmart

There were some analogies to RPGs, where you spend for certain item and there were analogies to real life card games where you spend for specific card.
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Alteil is pretty much well balanced. Sometimes you loose and sometimes the enemy wins.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Xovian » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:48 pm

Peralisc2 wrote:The direct exchange of cards, such as 5 star for 5 star is just plain wrong and not only does it cut into sales, but see people have groups of traders then, so what will those do that can't trade, that's wrong likethe "sell your card for gran" system (NOTE: sell your card for gran-system allows you to sell a 1 star for example to a smurf account for whatever amount of gran you want).


Maybe I have missed this some where, could also quote part of Lupos as well, but I didnt see anyone asking for trading in this thread.
So why is that being brought up, where was someone asking for that here?
This thread is about "buying", not trading.

Since trading is not part of the game, why are there not more reliable ways to get the cards you want, EG: by buying them?
It's the only thing I have been asking for, and I went through this thread and have seen nothing different from just that.
So why does trading keep being brought up? I can't find anyone asking for it here.
Other threads perhaps? I've not seen any current ones with it unless i missed it somewhere.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby worthing » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:51 pm

Xovian wrote:
worthing wrote:dont see what the point is since our opinion doesnt count but i really dont want it to be like that plus i dont see this ever really happening unless its level 1s and 2s because they will make 10x more money if they keep things the way they are perhaps. I can see this becoming an event for a day or 2 though.


Good point of view Worthing, however, you say they will make more money to keep it as it is.
I'd like to know where this assumption comes from, and its held by quite a number of people.
So I'm saying it not just to you, but anyone and everyone.

Is selling 10 packs of "you know what you are getting" earning any less (or any more money) then a randomly distributed 10 pack?
10 packs are 10 packs correct, if they are sold at the same value. Most equate the knowledge of knowing what you buy to be at a higher price already. It's somewhat expected these days.

However, most people live on a budget. The person thats going to spend 100$ or 200$ every new set is likely to do so regardless.
Those that don't spend have no incentive to do so because they know that just a chance is not worth the risk.
Simply put, if people want to gamble, they'll go to Vegas. A CCG (that is non-trade able) should not feel like you won the lottery if you happen to get a card you will actually use, regardless of rarity. There's really little incentive to actually buy, granted this is just my opinion.

The problem right now that most see and has been an on going problem is keeping the player base.
Sure we get the runs of a mass surge of new comers, now and then, but how many of them actually stay?
If even half of all the accounts stayed, and only spent that 100-200$ (or less, lets even say 50$ and no more) per set, then revenue would be up. The normal spenders would still spend (admittedly, maybe a bit less), but the newcomers would also be spending and the incentive of not basing what they buy on sheer luck will promote more buying from those old and new. It also entices people to stay, the more that stay, means the more that spend. Thats a simple economic principle. Some of the biggest super giants in retail attest to that, Wallmart being a major one. Volume/Quantity brings in gain, even if at some levels there is a slight loss. The gains will out perform the losses, and in fact be more successful in the long haul.

In the case of Alteil, by enticing more buyers, even if the "usual" buyers end up spending a bit less, the sales from more people are going to do more then make up the losses. It's a net gain in the case of Alteil. We have more buyers, we have more players (common complaint of folrart), and more people staying with the game because they dont have to spend what i did (during set1-set2) just so they can even feel competitive.

As its been said, we may not be able to change a thing, but at least if we the players, GM's and others actually talk about it, then no one will be able to say we didn't try. If a business model seems to be coming short (or you know it could do better), change, adapt; move forward. Every successful business, game, and many things in life do exactly that, those that dont fall by the way side and are eventually forgotten.



i got through ur first paragragh and thought wow lets try to use logic and who cares enough to read an opinion on this that 5 paragraphs long
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Xovian » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:54 pm

worthing wrote:i got through ur first paragragh and thought wow lets try to use logic and who cares enough to read an opinion on this that 5 paragraphs long


You quoted all that to say: nothing. :roll:
Lesson learned, responding to you also = nothing.
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby Azul » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:05 pm

See, I agree with the idea that being allowed to buy specific cards will help retention. And I agree that more players staying means more players buying cards which also means more profit. Therefore, I believe that enabling the ability to buy specific cards means the company will profit.

What I don't agree with is that specific analogy just because I can't reconcile the differences between the market Walmart sells to and the market Alteil sells to.

I also agree that Alteil would be totally borked if it ever put trading in the game. (it's abusable here in Alteil so people really should focus on other options but because it's in other card games it keeps coming back up argh)
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Re: Petition for single-card of your choice shop! vote please

Postby worthing » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:41 pm

Xovian wrote:
worthing wrote:i got through ur first paragragh and thought wow lets try to use logic and who cares enough to read an opinion on this that 5 paragraphs long


You quoted all that to say: nothing. :roll:
Lesson learned, responding to you also = nothing.


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