Voluntary Handicap setting

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby Xovian » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:42 pm

Skewer wrote:Why exactly do we get +2 gran/win and -1 gran/lose again? Is it to encourage grinding? winning? And what purpose does that serve again? Just make it +1 weekly gran per completed game played. Folrart is too cutthroat for my taste after dabbing in MTGO casual arena. Over there there are no incentives for winning, people play just for the fun of it. That's what I would like to see eventually in Alteil.


Well said Skewer, don't think i could have even remotely gotten close to saying this as well as you did. ;th2
I really dislike Folrart because it has just as many negatives as it does positives, why not just make it where its positive (win or loose) for everyone.
Even if its only minor: they still wont level quickly for losses, they wont have high RP from losses, so why not make at least something positive for playing.

I do have to wonder, and I'll make a bet so to speak here and now:
If the training arena or one like it (can't choose opponent) earned 1 point per completed game, Folrart would disappear.
I'd even wager if these points were converted as part of the point card system, you'd see the same thing.
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby luckysvn777 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:46 pm

If it earned 1 point per match, but didn't grant RP or experience.. Folrart might live on. Maybe.
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby Xovian » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:03 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:If it earned 1 point per match, but didn't grant RP or experience.. Folrart might live on. Maybe.

Perhaps, but i know i would never step foot into it again.
Also it would make testing files a lot more fun, though i do enjoy testing them vs the npc's as well.
My standard has to beat all 4 of the npc's consistently before i consider it a decent file, as they add more this will get better, but playing vs people is still a bit different so it helps to play vs many file types which likely would be found there.
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby Harion » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:55 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:I guess I'm the only one then that, thinking back to when I was a new player, if I got those wins by a handicap I would have been insulted more than happy.

is that all your issue? so, because you only think of yourself, you don't want others who might want this option to enjoy the benefits? how selfish can you get? anyway, that "self-esteem" issue can easily be solved by incorporating in the handicapping system a way of allowing the opposing player either to accept or reject the offer of a handicap.
example: you meet a newbie, you click the handicap button, an option appears in the newbie's screen:
iczer <name> offers a handicap in this game. would you like to accept? yes. no.
there. that saves all your pride for those too proud to accept handicaps. and still gives a way for others, for both vets and newbies to enjoy a handicapped game.
and btw, if this does get implemented, don't you ever dare accept any handicap from anyone you hypocrite.
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby luckysvn777 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:58 pm

Harion wrote:
luckysvn777 wrote:I guess I'm the only one then that, thinking back to when I was a new player, if I got those wins by a handicap I would have been insulted more than happy.

is that all your issue? so, because you only think of yourself, you don't want others who might want this option to enjoy the benefits? how selfish can you get? anyway, that "self-esteem" issue can easily be solved by incorporating in the handicapping system a way of allowing the opposing player either to accept or reject the offer of a handicap.
example: you meet a newbie, you click the handicap button, an option appears in the newbie's screen:
iczer <name> offers a handicap in this game. would you like to accept? yes. no.
there. that saves all your pride for those too proud to accept handicaps. and still gives a way for others, for both vets and newbies to enjoy a handicapped game.
and btw, if this does get implemented, don't you ever dare accept any handicap from anyone you hypocrite.


Hmmm, another rude reply from you towards me I see. This isn't the first. Please try to be a bit more mature in your posting, or i'll just stop taking them seriously.

So, by posting my view of it, I'm selfish? In my opinion, its not a benefit to the new player at all. It just lets them win. Doesn't give them more experience. Doesn't make them any better. Just hands them a set of training wheels so they don't have to put any actual effort into the game.

There's a distinct attitude difference i've noticed between those who succeed and those who don't. The former learn from their tough match-ups. They accept their loss, ask for advice, think about it, re-vamp their file, and eventually come up with a winning strategy. The latter just whine about the new players, refuse help, and essentially lose the match from their own mindset before the first turn is even played. They lack the patience nor the understanding that you need experience to play the game right, and that its all a process; the game won't hand you everything from the get-go. These "training wheels" as i call them, will simply allow the latter to not have to make that effort and learn how to play the game.

At one point, for the players to do well, they'll have to play Alteil without the training wheels. If they refuse to do that, and just get handicap wins and/or whine about the "big players", then why even bother?

Oh, and I wouldn't ever accept a handicap. I was fine back then through perserverance and actual effort. I'm more than fine now. I'll certainly be good enough to beat the one or two people actually crazy enough to sacrifice themselves for a voluntary handicap.

Oh, and by the way, its my opinion. Get off your high-horse and realize that other people have opinions different than yours, thanks.
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby NoFish » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:48 am

Skewer wrote:Why exactly do we get +2 gran/win and -1 gran/lose again? Is it to encourage grinding? winning? And what purpose does that serve again? Just make it +1 weekly gran per completed game played. Folrart is too cutthroat for my taste after dabbing in MTGO casual arena. Over there there are no incentives for winning, people play just for the fun of it. That's what I would like to see eventually in Alteil.


I agree that this would be nice - though the "give up" option would make it rather tricky to implement, I think. People could grind losses for gran pretty easily.
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby Peralisc2 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:15 am

Scylla 6 lp for teh win. :D
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Alteil is pretty much well balanced. Sometimes you loose and sometimes the enemy wins.
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby luckysvn777 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:29 am

xD

Nice Peral
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby Pancakes » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:33 pm

@ luckysvn777 : How can you say you would have been insulted because of a handicapp? In a game like this players without the "powerful" cards are already playing at a handicapp but not in their favor. Don't you see, when players with lots of cards like us play against a level 18 with nothing but modified starter that it's exactly the same as giving us a handicapp in our favor. A voluntary handicapp is only their to even it up. That's the entire point of a handicapp to begin with to make it more level playing field.

I mean, seriously, there are some card combos that a starter simply cannot deal with at all.

I once again reference the game between the level 100 on his smurf account getting his butt handed to him by a level 18 with less than 1500RP when they both had starters. The level 18 had 15 cards left in his hand, the level 100 on his modified starter deck had 1 card remaining. Do you think this would have been possible at all if the level 100 had his "real" cards with him. No way. The difference between this smurf account game and the "grinding" games is that the smurf account game was on an even playing field!!

And yes the smurf was trying to win. He had a assasin SS and invisible druid back to back and we all now when you do that you are playing to win with modified starter.

Anyways I like skewer's idea of playing for fun but the GM's will have to step it up with more tourneys with better prizes so the people who like to dominate others aka "Spike" :lol: will have something they can focus on while all the "Jimmys" :roll: can play for fun in Folrart and gain 1 gran per game or whatever.
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Re: Voluntary Handicap setting

Postby luckysvn777 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:19 pm

If you treat the level/card difference as a handicap, it WILL be a handicap. I never did, and thus it wasn't. If your argument is that the volunteer handicap is needed because starters can't compete... well that's a different issue then. Volunteer handicaps would be for both people who have bought cards at low level and mod starters alike. Thus, the issue is different than just "starters suck".

At any rate, i've explained my view more than enough. Go read it, i'm not posting it again.

On the other hand, the starters can, and should (hint hint GMs) be updated. They are definitely behind the times now and its a major issue that needs to be fixed.

And exactly how do you know this was a smurf? With 100% certainty. I don't know any smurfs of other people (well maybe three, but none of them are ones that could refer to this one), and I'm talking to them in chat most of the time.. because unless they made massive stupid errors or weren't really trying, there is no way that sort of event should happen.
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