Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

User suggestions to improve the game

Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby VanGopher » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:30 pm

Hi team,

I assume people have written about this elsewhere, but I just can't go through the 830 posts under 'new ideas' to find out who's already said what. So I wanted to start this thread JUST for ideas on how to improve retention from Crest to Folrart.

The way I see it, if people are willing to play all the way through Regus, they ought to be hooked already. Or they would be, if the game stayed fun. As it stands, though, it seems like the population in Crest is usually about the same as the pop in Folrart: Clearly, for the vast majority of players, this game stops being fun sometime around level 15. If these are mostly free players, I can get how Alteil, as a business, wouldn't really care. However, as a player - and a mediocre one at that - I'd really enjoy more matches against more people, particularly people of roughly my own level of experience (Approx. 200 matches). 'Cause let's face it - when I run in to Mavel or Skewer or Beezknees or...well, any of the hardcore players, I am gonna lose 9 times out of ten - and that's giving myself the benefit of the doubt. I will lose because 1) they have a (relatively small) edge in cards, 2) because they are better at deck construction, and 3) because they are much better players. This is a good learning experience for me, but when I pull 4 or 5 matches like that in a row, it can get kind of demoralizing. Not enough to make me quit, but probably enough to make lots of other people quit.

Therefore, I offer the following suggestions for possible ways to improve Crest - Falkow retention.

1) Cut the -1 penalty for losing on weekly gran. You want to reward active players, that's fine. But the -1 penalty for losing is a disincentive for new players to participate when they see Mavel in Folrart. And Mavel - you are ALWAYS in Folrart. The super-ninja players are going to be the ones who play most anyway, so they'll still get their modest bonus over casual players. Are you worried about abuse? I wouldn't be, but if you really are, cap the weekly gran at whatever you want. 150? Anyone who plays 150 matches in a week, or wins 75 deserves a booster pack in my book. But the new kids need to get SOMETHING for getting their butts handed to them over and over again, and right now they get squat. If new players feel like they're getting something from getting pounded, they'll stick around, and eventually crack and start buying packs just to have a shot at spanking Galadros some day.

2) Give people reasonable experience for losing. It's not like leveling is easy in this game anyway, and with one card every 10 levels, it's not like level cards disincentivize players from purchasing cards. If anything, it gives players MORE incentive to purchase cards to complete playsets, or expand into different spheres, or to buy packs 'cause they don't have other, newer player's shiny new level cards from the new set. Again, this is about making newer players feel better about the continual drubbing they will inevitably receive when they transition to Falrart. You must fix this, because retention = sales. Low RP - your publicly displayed level of suckiness - is disincentive enough from throwing games. No need to rub it in by not only getting nothing for losing, but watching your opponent WIDEN his lead over you by getting the XP you're missing out on.

Those were the biggies: those you should fix pronto. If you don't like them, however, here are some more.

3) Let people switch to a starter file of a different sphere. Maybe once per day? I bet lots of players get bored when they feel they've gone as far as they can go with the starter file they initially chose. So what do they do? Some of them probably start new accounts, go through Crest over and over again, and never switch to Folrart. While understandable for them, this is LAME for us. This does not encourage players to buy additional starter packs for 1000 gran per pop - it would be much better to let people mess around with all 4 colors: it would encourage them to take level cards in different spheres, which would probably encourage them to buy more packs to flush out all 4 colors, rather than focusing on one. Alteil would lose nothing by doing this - not one $. 'Cause anyone who would spend 1000 gran on a second starter pack was going to spend that money on boosters to get rares anyway. And being able to play lots of different deck styles is probably about the only thing that keeps most players going through the beatdowns of the late-teen / twenties levels. Giving players access to all four starters will at least make getting crushed in Folrart marginally less repetitive. They'll be able to get crushed in lots of different ways.

4) Add an arena for people under lvl 50. I suggest this ONLY if alteil isn't interested in any of the above ideas. In principle, this idea sucks, because the user base in Folrart is so small right now that Folrart can't really afford the handful of active players under level 50 (how many of us are there? 20? 30?). But maybe that would change, eventually, if players leaving Crest didn't get HAMMERED for the next 25 levels. This isn't just about cards: players who've played 50 matches against starters simply cannot hang with people who've played a couple of thousand. And most of them won't have the cards to be able to implement the strategies they observe while getting crushed. So they don't learn much, and they always lose, and all they've got this their aging set four lawt starter anyways...so whatever. They're outta here - this does not make alteil money.

In conclusion, obviously, this isn't about me. I bought my cards - at the 150 gran per pack pricepoint. I've managed to break 1600 RP (briefly, once. It's over now). But I'm one of a handful of us. And it would be nice for everyone if there were more.
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Re: Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:48 pm

Another arena would just cause less people to be in less locations. Level by that point means nothing. Its RP that matters.

Personally, I'm still advocating FM packs... they give the new player something to work towards, and they will feel like they are making progress then. Plus more cards for them to get = more chance of them staying.


The retention rate needs to be fixed sooooo bad... or at this rate, the game is in danger :/
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Re: Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby Peralisc2 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:01 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:Level by that point means nothing. Its RP that matters.

I might throw up if i see this line again ... not that it's false, i completly agree with it, but people have said it so many times already, it makes me sick.
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Re: Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby Phenoca » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:03 pm

VanGopher wrote:This is a good learning experience for me, but when I pull 4 or 5 matches like that in a row, it can get kind of demoralizing. Not enough to make me quit, but probably enough to make lots of other people quit.

Yup.

VanGopher wrote:1) Cut the -1 penalty for losing on weekly gran.

HURRAH!!!

Amen, amen.
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Re: Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby DWildstar » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:07 pm

If you haven't read it yet, I recommend darklogos How to transition from Crest to Folrart post. It was written before the big upgrade so it doesn't make mention of things that will help new players now like practicing with the NPC and duel spectating, but still worth a read.
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Re: Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby DDrgn » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:28 pm

VanGopher wrote: This is a good learning experience for me, but when I pull 4 or 5 matches like that in a row, it can get kind of demoralizing. Not enough to make me quit, but probably enough to make lots of other people quit.


Oh, I can't agree with this more. I'm hanging in there, but geez, one person can only take so much butt-kicking. >_>

1) Cut the -1 penalty for losing on weekly gran.


I ABHOR this penalty with a passion. I hate to see my few(under 5? lol) wins in Foltrart go to waste after losing 20+ times . At least make this a 0. If it was a +1, people would abuse it to heck and throw matches to quickly accumulate Gran. I'm sure the higher RP Iczers wouldn't mind extra Gran without the penalty too.

2) Give people reasonable experience for losing.


I think the GM's have addressed the issue of "abuse" if the experience for losing were higher. Still, I'd even go for TWO experience instead of the measly ONE every time I lose. :lol:

It's extremely disappointing to be on the losing end of a match, where both Iczer's have 1 LP each, and then you lose. Sure it was a GREAT game to get that far, but getting ONE experience point is kind of like adding "salt on the wound".

3) Let people switch to a starter file of a different sphere.


I would enjoy this, since I would only need one account, but since the GM's allow multiple accounts here instead of Alteil JP, I'm not sure. Would players exchange their current starter for another? That would be a cool prospect.

4) Add an arena for people under lvl 50.


I'd prefer an "RP arena" more than a level one. Level just indicates how long a player's been playing, or so I've been told. :)
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Re: Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:25 pm

I forgot to mention in my post that I support #1 and #3. Those would definitely be improvements.
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Re: Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby VanGopher » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:35 am

Dwildstar: Sure, I've read that guide. It was fine. It's no substitute for cards and experience, of course, which can only come from the school of hard knocks. But I've made the transition. I do okay. Also, the guide makes very clear that endless beatdowns are an unavoidable part of the transition.

Of course, as the kind of guy who writes on the forums, I am NOT the guy we need the game changed for. If everyone was as beatdown resistant as I was, I'd have nothing to complain about. Also, there'd be a lot more players in Falrart, and I'd get beatdown much less often. It's the folks who don't post on the forum, and don't read the guide, that need a little more help. And I would like them to get that help, because I don't want them to quit.

DDrgn: I guess I haven't seen the abuse-from-losing discussions. In principle, though, the danger of XP abuse seems easy enough to fix: you just don't make experience available when players disconnect or resign. If anyone really wants to join games over and over again and only make the minimum number of moves to lose, more power to 'em, I guess. I can't imagine that becoming a serious problem, but if it did, I suppose one could revisit the rules then.

Looking at the larger issue, though, how much damage could XP abuse actually do? If you abused your way all the way from level 20 to level 100, say, (and that is such a stunning amount of time and effort that I can't even imagine it) you would net a total of 8 cards. Not a big deal. And if you're going to all that trouble, you'll probably shell out cash for cards anyway. At that point, who cares about your 8 level cards, more or less? Not me. I won't even know about it.

How many people are going to go to that much trouble, anyway? Not many, I would think - and it would be a HUGE boon for casual players. What's more, when you stop and think about it, if the potential abuse of XP got, say, 500 people to abuse their way from level 20 to level 100, that would be a HUGE WIN for the Alteil community. 500 new players in Folrart - at any level - would make my frikkin' day. And you KNOW pack sales would be good that day.

I think we all need to remember that these cards are like crack. Just like with any CCG - opening packs is fun, and Alteil will sell more of them if they regularly remind people that opening packs is fun. Mirage master - one new pack every two weeks - and one new card every ten levels, falls a little short of making sure the player base stays appropriately cracked out. I do not see a potential for XP abuse to hurt pack sales, and whatever small danger of XP abuse does exist could be easily remedied by a few simple precautions, like those described above.
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Re: Alteil, you've got to fix the folrart retention rate

Postby Phenoca » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:45 pm

DDrgn wrote:I think the GM's have addressed the issue of "abuse" if the experience for losing were higher. Still, I'd even go for TWO experience instead of the measly ONE every time I lose. :lol:

Perhaps experienced-gained from loss is equal to opponent's original LP minus opponent's final LP?
(i.e. amount LP that your opponent has lost.)

DDrgn wrote:Would players exchange their current starter for another? That would be a cool prospect.

Difficult to code, but you could ask Lupos to do it manually and at no cost (if you have been good).

DDrgn wrote:
4) Add an arena for people under lvl 50.


I'd prefer an "RP arena" more than a level one. Level just indicates how long a player's been playing, or so I've been told. :)

Agreed - and with minimum treasure battle rarities of **.

VanGopher wrote:Looking at the larger issue, though, how much damage could XP abuse actually do? If you abused your way all the way from level 20 to level 100, say, (and that is such a stunning amount of time and effort that I can't even imagine it) you would net a total of 8 cards.

Don't shatter my hopes - I am almost at level 40 :(

VanGopher wrote:500 people to abuse their way from level 20 to level 100, that would be a HUGE WIN for the Alteil community. 500 new players in Folrart - at any level -

Yes, but I REALLY dislike it when I start-up a battle vs. a high-level, and they just give up.
It's like my XP-grinding is not worth it. Also - this would become unfair once level-up cards are instituted for more levels. So just the "XP-gained = LP that your opponent has lost" would be fine with me. Edit: And this would also be the minimum XP-gained from wins vs. low-levels.
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