My Argument to Improve Alteil

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Player Strike for Cost per Content

Postby luckysvn777 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:32 am

And that's how I feel after only playing for a couple of weeks, I can't imagine how people must feel with one copy of a ***** rating card.


One Renally. Since practically day one of playing the game. Even after $100's later.

In fact after $100's later, I still barely have any usable 4 star "sets" and not one single 5 star set.

Exactly why we need a duplication system.
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Re: Player Strike for Cost per Content

Postby NoFish » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:06 am

luckysvn777 wrote:
And that's how I feel after only playing for a couple of weeks, I can't imagine how people must feel with one copy of a ***** rating card.


One Renally. Since practically day one of playing the game. Even after $100's later.

In fact after $100's later, I still barely have any usable 4 star "sets" and not one single 5 star set.

Exactly why we need a duplication system.

Amen. I have four playsets of 4-stars, and only one 5-star I even have two copies of. Now, I'm not exactly a heavy spender, but I put in $20 a month, and have spent more at times. My chances of ever being able to run a Renally or Mirelia file are looking pretty poor.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Skewer » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:52 am

My goal is to just get 2 copies of any 5* I want to use and use point cards to fill in the third. We don't want too many people running around with 5* files (that would defeat the purpose of making them rare), yet and the same time we still want them to be accessible. Its a tough decision trying to find the right probability so that people who play for a decent amount of time can get one playset. Of course, level-ups would be the most helpful here.
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Re: Player Strike for Cost per Content

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:14 am

Silverrock wrote:So I agree with the CpC ratio argument because the game mechanics demand it. If you have to randomly hope to get 3 of a kind, the odds are better playing poker... :roll:


Quoted for both truth and hilarity.

Over the course of this strike and everyone commenting its become more and more clear to me that the true problem is the fact you need 3 of a card to use it yet you have no way to duplicate cards you already own. Giving more gran per dollar spent, while it would help give more content per dollar spent, is doing so mainly because it increases your chances of getting 3 of a kind of cards. We wouldn't actually need to be given more gran per dollar if there was a way to duplicate and thus make useful the cards we already get with our current gran.

I remember back when the game first came out I was of the firm belief that you should NEVER recycle a card unless you had 4 or more of it, didn't matter how rare, or what sphere, but in the last lottery up event I went against my own advice. The lotto was actually giving good returns and I noticed the plethora of cards in my collection I had 1-2 copies of and have not gotten any closer to completing in the past year, and I recycled them because, especially with the single copies with less then unique or impressive soul skills, the cards were useless too me and showed no signs of ever being useful to me.

Cards you pull should never be like that, they should never be useless, but that's currently the way things are and the main reason people don't feel they get their money's worth when they spend right now. Yeah they get a bunch of cards, yeah they can get a bunch more from free gran, but the odds of actually getting 3 card playsets of any of the cards they pulled are VERY slim, and with out 3 copies, all you've really unlocked for your money is the ability to look at the cards in-game instead of having to go to the card list.

Though... apparently the staff is under manned, at least in the area of programmer, so even if the GMs hear these comments and want to help, if I understand correctly, it could take another 6 months to a year to actually put together a card duplicator or anything of the sort...
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Logress » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:36 pm

Personally, I like this card duplicator idea. It gives users a diverse card pool, and allows everyone to actually use what you have. Of course, it doesn't mean everyone will have a Lady Paladin, because if you don't at least get 1 by chance, you won't be able to have 3. But maybe that person was lucky enough to get something else instead, like an Eskatia or an Athira. As Dan said, this could be a little difficult to implement. Basically, the more integrated it is into the existing systems, the more difficult it could be. This doesn't strike me as the kind of thing that should be, say a button on our main web page. Not exactly intuitive or secure. In my magical dream world, the computer would just analyze your card pool every time you buy a random card, and give bonus % chance of getting cards you have either 1 or 2 copies of already. This bonus would vary depending on the rarity, the size of the card pool you're buying from, etc, etc, and be posted somewhere on the site so users could understand it. We'd calibrate it so that users can consistently get playsets whenever they buy.

Like I said, the more integrated the longer it'll take to get it made, so that idea can live in my dreamworld for now while I try to brainstorm a more practical way to meet the same goals.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby luckysvn777 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:58 pm

Hmmm, that does seem like a great solution Logress... but an extremely complicated one as well. That would definitely take time.


My initial idea for something would just be a section of the site, like point cards, where you could simply purchase second/third copies of cards. At appropriate prices for their rarity of course. That way people still have to spend for playsets, but after getting the 1st card, their remaining money will always be used to get GUARANTEED copies of their other copies. That way it still encourages more spending, satisfies the playerbase, and allows more variation in the game.

The con: It could easily make getting 4-5 stars too easy to get... and there is still the problem of getting that last 5 star in your collection for the uber-collectors... but both those cons I dont' think are too serious for the overall game.

Not sure if that is simpler, and its not as cool as your idea, but its an idea.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Xovian » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:58 pm

Still leaving it much to chance seems the way you want to go, and i think thats fine.

Consider this as my idea for implementing it on an easier scale.

A simple if/then subroutine could do it.
It would need its own button probably because it would work off of different calculations but i think it would be good over all and still allow for it to rely on chance.

Make a button that scans an accounts card sets, and find all the ones that have more then 1 (maybe require it to need 2), but less then 3.
When they purchase (probably with gran, maybe set at 30g or a little higher?), the pool the computer uses with that button are only those cards that meet the equation above. In this way you are guaranteed to get a card that you need more of, but it will still be random on what you get.

Most people do not have full playable sets, including those who tend to spend more.
So this type of thing would make the game far more playable and most people wouldnt have as much complaints about filling out sets.
Would still require lotto/packs/boxes to get those first 1 (maybe 2) cards and then have a much easier time completing the third.

The third thing is it may make recycling cards you dont plan to use if you dont have 3 of them more desired, which can make it another choice and gamble as well. Lowering the card pull for cards you want to get is smart, but you never know when a card might be errata'ed to be better, or you find a theme/file that you wish you hadnt gotten rid of it.

Just food for thought.
Last edited by Xovian on Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby luckysvn777 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:59 pm

Xovian wrote:Still leaving it much to chance seems the way you want to go, and i think thats fine.

Consider this as my idea for implementing it on an easier scale.

A simple if/then subroutine could do it.
It would need its own button probably because it would work off of different calculations but i think it would be good over all and still allow for it to rely on chance.

Make a button that scans an accounts card sets, and find all the ones that have more then 1 (maybe require it to need 2), but less then 3.
When they purchase (probably with gran, maybe set at 30g or a little higher?), the pool the computer uses with that button are only those cards that meet the equation above. In this way you are guaranteed to get a card that you need more of, but it will still be random on what you get.

Most people do not have full playable sets, including those who tend to spend more.
So this type of thing would make the game far more playable and most people wouldnt have as much complaints about filling out sets.
Would still require lotto/packs/boxes to get those first 1 (maybe 2) cards and then have a much easier time completing the third.

Just food for thought.



This is also a very valid idea as well
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:38 pm

Logress wrote:Personally, I like this card duplicator idea. It gives users a diverse card pool, and allows everyone to actually use what you have. Of course, it doesn't mean everyone will have a Lady Paladin, because if you don't at least get 1 by chance, you won't be able to have 3. But maybe that person was lucky enough to get something else instead, like an Eskatia or an Athira. As Dan said, this could be a little difficult to implement. Basically, the more integrated it is into the existing systems, the more difficult it could be. This doesn't strike me as the kind of thing that should be, say a button on our main web page. Not exactly intuitive or secure.


If implementing a card duplicator, and doing so in a timely manner, would become infinitely more possible via a web page button, then despite how un-intuitive it might be, I strongly urge you consider doing it. If nothing else, it could work as a place holder that you could eventually get rid of, but until then it would at least give players some way of accessing a very useful tool that they are currently badly in need of.

Xovian wrote:Xovian's suggestion


Awesome idea that takes advantage of the fact that this is infact a video game and not a real card game, so its possible to pull off tricks like those to reduce redundant content, but I question if it wouldn't end up being just as, if not harder, to implement then the other ideas. What happens if you have all your 1* and 2*s sets completed, your guarneteed a 3* or higher from the button? If not, then the button has to "else, run lotto scrip" or something right? But then if your paying big money to use this button, getting pushed over to the 10 gran lotto script is going to be understandably annoying. I don't know, cool idea, but I do think it would need to be refined a bit, and might still end up taking a decent bit of work to implement.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Xovian » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:51 pm

DanTheTimid wrote:Awesome idea that takes advantage of the fact that this is infact a video game and not a real card game, so its possible to pull off tricks like those to reduce redundant content, but I question if it wouldn't end up being just as, if not harder, to implement then the other ideas. What happens if you have all your 1* and 2*s sets completed, your guarneteed a 3* or higher from the button? If not, then the button has to "else, run lotto scrip" or something right? But then if your paying big money to use this button, getting pushed over to the 10 gran lotto script is going to be understandably annoying. I don't know, cool idea, but I do think it would need to be refined a bit, and might still end up taking a decent bit of work to implement.


Why would it need to?
Just because you eventually get into higher rarity doesnt mean the script should be changed.
If all you have left to get is 5 stars, then i would think by the time you get to that point you've invested enough into the game, or if nothing else been an active player for a very long time. I see no reason why the script would need to be changed just because eventually you'd have nothing else but higher rarity to get.
It only makes sense that eventually (or with a lot of luck) that you can actually acquire higher rarity as well. It could have percentile as part of the code for rarity, but eventually it should allow them with out exception if that's all you have left to get.

Other wise it defeats the entire purpose of "make a way to reasonably complete play sets", just because its a higher rarity does not change the fact, for most of them you need 3 to be effective.
Last edited by Xovian on Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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