My Argument to Improve Alteil

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Romdeau » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:53 pm

you could potentially abuse the crap out of this system using recycling, rinse, and repeat.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Xovian » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:56 pm

Romdeau wrote:you could potentially abuse the crap out of this system using recycling, rinse, and repeat.

Not if it is set up with restrictions like only once a day/week.

By adding a simple restriction like this, sure you could "abuse it" but guess how long that would take.
Most people dont have the patients for that type of thing.
Besides, since there's no trading it really wouldn't be something conducive to do.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:06 pm

Xovian wrote:
Romdeau wrote:you could potentially abuse the crap out of this system using recycling, rinse, and repeat.

Not if it is set up with restrictions like only once a day/week.

By adding a simple restriction like this, sure you could "abuse it" but guess how long that would take.
Most people dont have the patients for that type of thing.
Besides, since there's no trading it really wouldn't be something conducive to do.


First rom beats me to respond about how it could be abused, then you beat me to respond to rom's response, I need to type faster or something.

First, adding these once per day/week restrictions not only make it less helpful of a tool, but make it more complicated to implement. Next, trust me, there are players who almost NEVER play in the arena who still show up every day just to get their mirage master gran, if theres a way to abuse something, a way to get free gran, people will find patience, and they will abuse it as best they can.

Again, I like the general concept of your idea, but I really think it is need of some refinement and that refinement will end up creating more work and complexity to design. Maybe something like, having a seperate price based on what rarity level you're hoping to draw from, and greying out rarities you already have complete sets of everything in, so you can never "gain" gran from using the button on a 5*, because it charges you over 300 gran to use it if your going after a 5*. But of course all that would require even more work to implement...
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Xovian » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:26 pm

DanTheTimid wrote:Again, I like the general concept of your idea, but I really think it is need of some refinement and that refinement will end up creating more work and complexity to design. Maybe something like, having a seperate price based on what rarity level you're hoping to draw from, and greying out rarities you already have complete sets of everything in, so you can never "gain" gran from using the button on a 5*, because it charges you over 300 gran to use it if your going after a 5*. But of course all that would require even more work to implement...


I'll explain it in a bit more depth Dan, as you seemed to have missed some of what i was saying.

First its only going to scan cards you have, but dont have full sets of. Thus the greying out is already there.
Your not going to get an OMG 5 star every time you try it.
Even if you recycled every single thing you own that is not a 5 star (or 4 star), it would still be a net loss with a weekly restriction.
Keep in mind the restriction does 2 things.

-Makes it to where trying to get only rares or abusing it, would not only take a long time, but would be rather deconstructive.
If you did sell one, what next? Go lotto, or buy a pack then try to recycle everything again and keep doing it every week?
So someone might get a lot of rares this way, but then what? Are they going to be able to play with all those rares, a file full of rares hardly means winning files.
They could be altered to have the beginners tag (same as starters) if it was thought to be a problem. Keep in mind that was originally considered for point cards as well, but the low amount any player is able to get makes this not something that can easily be abused.
-Secondly it makes the fix of point cards we've been asking for not a redundant way to get too many cards at once.

So the break down:
-If/Then statement for cards you need sets of and already own at least one of.
-Restricted to once a week (Monday maintenance sounds reasonable), maybe even require "a win" in a given Arena for the week. (there's lots of ways to add restrictions)
-If it is seen as being a problem for people just trying to get rares to recycle, add a simple beginners tag so they can not be recycled.

Problem solved, people get an "easy way" to complete cards they already own, but there is in no way shape or form a way to abuse this.
It also allows other bonuses like the point card system (once fixed, or made reasonable) that both will be used in conjunction to get cards people want to play with, build files with.

Personally i could see the argument of abuse if there was trading, but since getting cards only helps for file building, it seems kinda pointless to do so. As i said some things can be done, and the complexity of such things is really not all that hard from a programmers point of view, albeit it is time consuming, but most things worth waiting for are.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Logress » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:09 pm

It would probably have to do something like randomly pick the rarity first, based on pack % or lottery % or whatever, then check the list you have of that rarity. If you have 3 of a kind of every single card at that rarity, then you get a 4th copy of something. So this way you can't force it to give you 5*'s, but if you only have 1 5* you'll fill up on that before you get anything else.

I may have just come up with a way to make this idea EVEN more complicated to implement...
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Xovian » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:14 pm

Logress wrote:It would probably have to do something like randomly pick the rarity first, based on pack % or lottery % or whatever, then check the list you have of that rarity. If you have 3 of a kind of every single card at that rarity, then you get a 4th copy of something. So this way you can't force it to give you 5*'s, but if you only have 1 5* you'll fill up on that before you get anything else.

I may have just come up with a way to make this idea EVEN more complicated to implement...


Just curious Logress. But wouldn't having it where it can still give cards you already have (3 of) be the exact same thing as lotto/packs/boxes we already have?
Maybe i'm not seeing what your describing, but it sounds exactly like the lotto we have now, except there may be a percentage increase for cards a player already owns, but doesn't have 3 of.

If thats indeed the case, then all it is, is a lottery program tweak.
Maybe i missed something in your meaning, so i apologize if i'm misunderstanding something.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Skewer » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:03 pm

No, it just has innate rates set so its impossible to force it to give you a 5*. But once it chooses the rarity, it will always help you complete a playset of a card of that rarity, unless you have no cards of that rarity with 1 or 2 copies. So it wont be incredibly useful if you already have all the 1* and 2* playsets, but it will make sure that you dont keep getting a 4th copy of orthos when you only need one more belus to complete a playset. Just call it lotto+
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Pancakes » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:05 am

Maybe you should be able to "sacrafice" cards over the 3rd copy for bonus gran. That way getting a 4th copy of something will be a good thing as it will be worth 2x the normal gran for you. But you'd never agree to that. For 1star 4th duplicates, you basically get a "do-over" for lotto.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Eladin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:04 am

Silverrock wrote:And that's how I feel after only playing for a couple of weeks, I can't imagine how people must feel with one copy of a ***** rating card.

just happy to have it actually. would it be nice to have a second copy, and make it more likely for me to play? sure...but it's still awesome just having a couple. :D

Silverrock wrote:If you have to randomly hope to get 3 of a kind, the odds are better playing poker... :roll:

nah, i've gotten more 3 of a kind for cards in Alteil than poker by far. and i used to go to the casino just about every weekend. :)

Logress wrote:It would probably have to do something like randomly pick the rarity first, based on pack % or lottery % or whatever, then check the list you have of that rarity. If you have 3 of a kind of every single card at that rarity, then you get a 4th copy of something. So this way you can't force it to give you 5*'s, but if you only have 1 5* you'll fill up on that before you get anything else.

I may have just come up with a way to make this idea EVEN more complicated to implement...


that sounds like probably the most logical way to play it. what he's saying Xo, is that you'd only get a fourth copy, if whatever rarity the lotto first determines to award for (say in this case 2* rarity) you have three copies of every 2* card there is...which...i don't know how many of you might have these already, but that sounds like a pretty huge improvement to me. heck, almost takes the lotto right out of it considering you'd only "lose" if you had full sets of every card in a given rarity.
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Re: My Argument to Improve Alteil

Postby Galandros » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:39 pm

Logress wrote:It would probably have to do something like randomly pick the rarity first, based on pack % or lottery % or whatever, then check the list you have of that rarity. If you have 3 of a kind of every single card at that rarity, then you get a 4th copy of something. So this way you can't force it to give you 5*'s, but if you only have 1 5* you'll fill up on that before you get anything else.

I may have just come up with a way to make this idea EVEN more complicated to implement...


Something like this would be great to mitigate the risk of chasing high rarity cards and hitting a 4th copy of X.
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