A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby garcia1000 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:40 am

I agre RP arena should have maximum cap but not minimum cap
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby Demongod » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:53 pm

Peralisc2 wrote:
Demongod wrote:Hope we don't get such situations. That's the only thing we can do, really.

:lol: :lol: Very convincing. This lack of arguments will stop this idea from being implemented.

Someone that understands the difference, between a 5$ spender and a free player that's grinding for free to the point of having just as many cards or maybe even more (thus being able to do more), please explain it to me, because i can't figure out what makes those 2 different from one another. Both reached same level of strength ...


Let me try to suggest the addition of a difference between the 2 types i described above, so i and those that are like me and can't understand the difference can argue along with the rest in here.
What if tomorrow or the day after that or ... they would add 1 more arena, a voluntary one, that's for paying players only. That arena gives a higher XP boost and also a higher FM boost. How much higher isn't important, i just want you to imagine that arena.
Personally i would be interested to drop 5$ or whatever the minimum is to get into there, so i can get faster level ups and faster FM, even if it's just a slightly higher gain. The guys over there might be hardcore spenders, all of them, but if i get 1-2 nice combos together (with the cards i get) i know i could make that small investment more than worth it! I assume all those guys would be also very high leveled, which makes those xp gains so damn amazing, really more than just worth it!

This in a way or another is similar to the cash items/privilege/game-points items that you get in various free to play MMOs.
(might fix the potions while you are at it! so at least some players see some use for them)


And if i was in charge and would have to add an arena for free players only, i would add one with lesser gains in XP and FM. Probably not just slightly lesser gain. Why? Because a free arena where only free players can play is counterproductive for this game. If you don't think so then the thinking you invest(ed) does not help you to understand why; try harder.

Now after i created these imaginary arenas, i see no issues with them, since personally i would aim for the one that gives highest gain and would play lower gain arenas when i just don't feel like playing serious, maybe.


First of all, allow me to retract the "let's hope it doesn't happen". Because even if it did, my new response is this:

So what? You're saying that's worse than what free players face in Folrart, when they have the chance of potentially going up against someone with a completely stacked metagame deck loaded with ridiculous EX cards?

As for your "paid arena gets more exp+FM, free arena gets less exp/FM", that's ridiculous.

My entire suggestion is to add options, not to put more subliminal money-vampiring in the game. Tell me, Peralisc, do you want to increase the size of the community? Yes? Then do so by adding equally good choices.

If players decide that they're bored of playing in the Free arena, what's to stop them from moving to Folrart and having "a blast"? Nothing. They can do so at any given moment. What I'm giving is an option of choice. That if they want to avoid the paid players, that they have every right to do so. What's wrong with that?

Your arguments: "the game's not supposed to be played that way". Guess what? Who's to stop players from playing the kind of game they want? Perfect example is super smash brothers melee. The casual players play all stages with a bunch of ridiculous items spawning everywhere (bob-ombs, hammers, invincibility stars, pokeballs containing instakill pokemon, etc...), while the hardcore players turn off items, ban abusable stages, and so on, in order to turn smash into something that they can also have fun playing.

One game. Two kinds of players. Two kinds of playing preferences. One is no better than the other--just different. Who are you, Peralisc, or any other experienced player, or any GM, to tell people "we know better!" No, you don't. I'm 23 years old. I'm old enough to make my own decisions as to what I want, and what I don't. I reserve the right not to be nannied.

What you're saying is to put the game even more in favor of the paid players. "You paid money! Congratulations! You get access to a sparkling shining new arena that gives you oodles and oodles of goodies because you're such a nice guy for giving us your hard-earned cash." This is nothing but a handout to the paid players. And please, for god's sake, don't play the "paid players support the game, free players don't!" card.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:21 pm

DemonGod, there are two points just about everyone has pointed out to you that you refuse to accept, but which make your arguments flawed:

1.) Once again, more cards does not necessarily equal wins. Look at the "free player account" topic. There are a lot of them with decently high RP and win percent. Its actually quite possible right now as things are for free players to compete.. AND IT WILL ONLY GET BETTER. So I have to ask what the problem, once again, is?

2.) First of all, an RP arena would be better. Then free players would be matched with other free players.. or other players who paid but still have the skill of only a free player. Secondly, those free players who get really good and actually figure out how to play the game will thus be paired will people of equal skill, as opposed to thrashing the worse free players. Third, it gives free players the ability to grow, become better, and aspire to go higher... as opposed to just babying them forever like with a free arena. Yes, i said babying. That's exactly what it would be.

The major point stopping any arena increase is that.. once again, we don't have enough players. And you can't argue that "oh, well more players will join once there is a new arena". We do not know that. Alteil cannot take that chance. Thus, the player growth must happen before the arena additions happen. Just recently, a level 1-3 arena was trashed because it made things too hard to find a game in Crest. There simply are not enough players for that idea to work. Fact.
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby Demongod » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:42 pm

More cards doesn't necessarily equal more wins.

However, it absolutely does not equal more losses. Conversely, having no new cards does not necessarily contribute to more losses, however, it most certainly does not contribute to more wins.

In short, the freebies are playing upstream. I want to give them the choice not to.

As for your RP arena, I say we keep my idea and add the RP arena as well.

Now as to your "Alteil doesn't have enough players!"

You're right. At the moment. But then again, what exactly is this game doing to attract new players anyway? I've made a ton of suggestions and in the end, someone always wound up playing the "friendly to free players = no incentive to pay = no revenue = game dies" card.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:13 pm

Everyone has to wade upstream at some point. Basically, you're just giving them the option to go nowhere... in other words, not grow as a player. Because the second they step outside that arena, they'll still get crushed. Eventually they'll have to accept that and let go.

And this goes, believe it or not, for paying AND free players. Believe me, if some level 1 spent $1000 and could play the top meta in the game, he would still get crushed for quite a while until he figured out how to do more than copycat and hope for the best.


As for your suggestions.. mind listing them exactly? Perhaps there are some I ignored, but besides the ad revenue (which is unfeasible and stupid in my opinion), and the additional arenas (which won't work until the problem is solved anyway), what else have you suggested?
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby DWildstar » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:21 pm

Having five arenas is simply impossible. We want to add an RP arena some day but even now having just three arenas currently isn't realistic because we want people to be able to get a duel.

It's good to give suggestions (it's why I made a separate forum for it) it's unreasonable to continue talking about ideas that are unfeasible and have no chance of being implemented any time soon. The threads you've made recently will always be here but for now additional arenas is simply not a possibility. When we decide that the game is in good enough shape is when we'll make significant changes such as an RP arena, but not before.

Until then we're working on ways of improving the game from a number of angles. Whether we're talking about getting new players, satisfying free players, low spenders, medium spenders heavy spenders. These are all concerns of ours, and like I've said before, just because something didn't happen the day after it was posted in the forum doesn't mean we're not working on SOMETHING at all times.

Keep posting your suggestions, we'll keep reading them. But no sense in beating a dead horse with suggestions that we know cannot be implemented any time soon.
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby Otonashi » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:53 pm

What if we just turned Crest into an RP 1550 or less arena? And if possible, Iczers can't gain or lose RP until they reach level 15. (Or maybe even 10? I just wanted to match the max Lv of Crest. But then again, wasn't the Crest maximum only bumped up because of the addition of Regus?)
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby Peralisc2 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:59 am

Demongod wrote:
Peralisc2 wrote:Someone that understands the difference, between a 5$ spender and a free player that's grinding for free to the point of having just as many cards or maybe even more (thus being able to do more), please explain it to me, because i can't figure out what makes those 2 different from one another. Both reached same level of strength ...

NO COMMENT!

Since you seem to be such a knowledgeable person, why don't you explain this difference to me?

So what? You're saying that's worse than what free players face in Folrart, when they have the chance of potentially going up against someone with a completely stacked metagame deck loaded with ridiculous EX cards?

No. If you read above you will see exactly what i say. It can be just as bad or even worse, depending on how much the free player grinded.

As for your "paid arena gets more exp+FM, free arena gets less exp/FM", that's ridiculous.

So 5$ can give so much that it becomes ridiculous. In one way i actually completely agree with you. Help the game with that much and help yourself with so much more!

Tell me, Peralisc, do you want to increase the size of the community? Yes? Then do so by adding equally good choices.

They are equally good. Folrart means more effort put in so you get rewarded for that.

If players decide that they're bored of playing in the Free arena, what's to stop them from moving to Folrart and having "a blast"?

I started 1 week ago. I am bored of the free players that started 1-2 years ago and grinded lots of cards. If i leave the free player arena, i don't know where else to go since folrart is full of equally annoying and overpowered decks, at least for me since i am new and i am a free player

Your arguments: "the game's not supposed to be played that way".

Which way? You summarized my entire post so much that you can't recognize what my argument actually is.

One game. Two kinds of players. Two kinds of playing preferences. One is no better than the other--just different. Who are you, Peralisc, or any other experienced player, or any GM, to tell people "we know better!" No, you don't. I'm 23 years old. I'm old enough to make my own decisions as to what I want, and what I don't. I reserve the right not to be nannied.

I didn't say i know better. I even asked you to explain this to me:
Peralisc2 wrote:Someone that understands the difference, between a 5$ spender and a free player that's grinding for free to the point of having just as many cards or maybe even more (thus being able to do more), please explain it to me, because i can't figure out what makes those 2 different from one another. Both reached same level of strength ...

So tell me! Why don't you want to share with me that information? I feel left outside, since nobody explains to me where that huge gap is hiding there.

What you're saying is to put the game even more in favor of the paid players.

Oh i have a nice comparison here to make:

It's 5$ ... imagine i can buy an alteil plushie for 5$ to gift to some girl and get the chance win some appreciation from her! Does that seem unfair too? Since i maybe gain advantage much easier with money?
And then you know what if you want a girl from X country and some other guy wants her too and you (all 3 persons) conversate online and the other guy sent her a plushie for 5$ and 15$ post!
Well since comparing it to plushies ain't good enough, let's move one step forward and also think about more than just 5$! And guess what, not only does the girl think she will be able to meet him much easier in real life, but what if the guy also visits her and invites her to a drink and just have a talk. The difference of being able to meet her in real life easier is all that matters!

"You paid money! Congratulations! You get access to a sparkling shining new friendship of some sort that gives you oodles and oodles of goodies because you're such a nice guy for giving out your hard-earned cash." This is nothing but a handout to the paid real-life-players.

I say life isn't fair! It's damn unfair! But ask yourself, do you put up enough of a fight to overcome that 5$ difference?
You know this means a greater chance at success, right? It's just a chance that you get much faster, aimed at the right spot, at right moment, in the right situations (all that together ofcourse) is what let's you win!
ImageImage
Alteil is pretty much well balanced. Sometimes you loose and sometimes the enemy wins.
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby Ginnazoh » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:01 am

demongod have you tried finding a job? if you hate wading upstream so much, you must really hate life.

You know maybe you were spoiled and never had to experience trying to land a decent job with no connection and little experience.
Here let me put this way for you, which one would you hire for the same pay?
Person A: College student recently graduated, none to little working experience, ambitious and would move to better job if offered
Person B: 38 year old whos been working for years, 10 years of experience, less ambitious and thus more reliable

WOW SO UNFAIR FOR PERSON A, HE HAS TO WORK UPSTREAM...LIFE IS UNFAIR THEY SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! WE NEED TO CHANGE OUR SOCIETY!
oops caps lock!

Now if you say "well I get to work on wall street right after I graduate because I went to blahblahblah university and have a blahblahblah piece of paper called a Masters," then i say you are being unfair! you've spent thousands of dollar going to an university and earning your masters and getting connections. You are a payer! This is not fair for the "free" people who can't afford university or is not given an opportunity to go to university! This is not fair! something should be done so that those people who never spent thousands of dollars for university to help them compete and get jobs and steal jobs from those who has spent thousands of dollar for education! After all, education is something that's non-corporeal, and thus using your logic, as worthless as bits and bytes.

Personally, I think a large part of the problem will be fixed with a FM lotto. It makes it possible to grind for FM and use them on cards at a reasonable rate. So until that happens, I don't think there is anything else that can satisfy free player who want more cards while keeping true to the nature of COLLECTIBLE CARD Games.
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Re: A system suggestion which should make everyone happy

Postby garcia1000 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:21 am

I think FM lotto is good
right now there is no incentive for people with tiny cards level 15+ to play omre than 1/week

if we had FM lotto maybe 20 fm/card then more incenttive to play
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