Potential Solution to All the Debate!

User suggestions to improve the game

Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby Ginnazoh » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:58 pm

After all this debate going on the board recently, I think I have a solution that will help everyone.

The idea I have is that we make it so everyone, new players and current players, all start with all the starter files. Therefore, there is no need to pick a starter file because you will have all of them, or in other words, everyone starts with all the cards of "The Beginning" set in the checklist.

This proposal contains several characteristics:
1) Needs to be implemented for new players AND old players to be fair.
2) It will be a huge help for free players, while only a mostly minor one for paying players.
3) It will not cost Alteil any money as none of these cards will be recyclable for gran and are cards we are already giving out for free.

Benefits:
1) Free players and new players start off with more cards...EVERYONE has more cards now, but lots of these cards will be useless for veteran players like Mavel or luckyse7en777 because they already own them, but it will be very helpful for free and new players since they will probably not have them.

2) It makes lotto pulls more valuable. No longer will a Gowen starter be angry with getting a Folrart Guardian pull, now they will be able to utilize it since they have all the cards of the Refess starter too!

3) There are some important cards that were only available to some starter and not others, like the assassin card, now that no longer is a concern since everyone will have access to at least one of this card for its useful ss skill.

4) Players can try out other decks to under stand how the other spheres work and gain a better grasp of the game.

5) No need to create numerous alternate accounts just to test out the other starters!

6) Even if you dont like a starter, theres nothing wrong with having extra cards for potential ss usage or potential combo usage.

7) Non-abusable since all of these cards will have a shield on them and cannot be recycled for gran.

8) From what I've seen in the current starters and heard about in the old starters, none of the cards are game breaking on its own.

9) Having these starter cards will not dissuade potential buyers from spending, because these are starters after all, they are not Meta or dominating decks. I personally think it will encourage them to spend more since they realize they are more likely to be able to use the "random" cards they get.

Confusion/Concerns:
1) Is the set called "The Beginning" the same for everyone, or is it based on when you registered, since I know there have been different starter sets. In my ideal realization of this solution, it would be best that all the cards in all the starters in the history of alteil be in this "The Beginning" set so that new players get a bit of every set and more cards. I think this is feasible because the only things I have heard about the old starters have been that they were bad (e.g. Set 1 Refess) so I dont think having these extra cards will unbalance the game or anything, but there maybe that 1 or 2 card in that deck that can be used with great synergy with the newer cards. The only concern that comes to mind that I know of is the LeBeau SS, but I can think of ways for each current starter to get around this issue (obvious choices would be assassin ss or x20 dmg ss, both of which everyone would have under this new idea)

So is it possible to make the current set called "The Beginning" a collection of all the cards that were in all of the starters, both current and past?

2) Is it possible to make it that when new starters comes out, everyone receives them?

3) The starter is currently being sold as an item in the shop. If this suggestion takes place, Alteil will lose a sales item. But I do not think this would be a great lost (I am not sure if it is even a lost at all) as I don't think many people are buying this item. I do not have any evidence to back this claim up other than my own opinion, experience and what I have heard from talking to other players. But because this is a change in the Gran based items being sold, it might require approval from some higher authority before this new idea can take place thus causing a time delay.

Downside:
1) It requires some coding to make this the way new players begin the game. They no longer get to choose a starter but get access to all of them.

2) It requires some coding so that all the current players also get all these cards.

3) No longer able to sell starter packs in shop, but I have a feeling the sales of those starters aren't great as I think it is unanimously agreed by all players that the starters are not worth 10 dollars or 1000 gran each.

4) Takes time to implement and would require the Alteil teams to talk this over and maybe require permission from higher authorities that we players do not know of.

5) We no longer pick starters so maybe if anyone feels unique that they are a LAWTIA starter or whatever will lose this sense of entitlement, but this idea does not limit your game play since you now have ALL the cards and can only use Lawtia if that is the only one you want to use, or dont use a specific starter if you really dont like it.

Example of how this can be successful:

1) EX Refess packs are really good, I think everyone agrees. But, they are pointless right now to non refess starters, so even though its very good and they won't buy or save up for it. Now if everyone had it, Some people might decide to that "heck its only 12 dollars" and buy the EX refess so they can now have a currently competitive folrart deck (not sure if this deck will be competitive in the future as people will figure out more ways to beat it), and those people who are free players can save up 1200 gran, which is very possible to do as I pointed out in another post, and get 3 EX refess packs to be competitive! And, if you are a free player, you still need to work for it to get there, which i think everyone can agree makes sense since in life, you need to work for something you want.

2) The frustration of getting Guardian pulls when your not refess; Merc pulls when your not gowen; Hellsmoke pulls when your not lawtia; Mage Knight pulls when your not Falkow will no longer exist. All of those pulls can help you because you now have all the starter. That player who might decide to ragequit Alteil because they are Gowen and after weeks of playing finally gets a playset of a Guardian , will now not quit and maybe play Alteil even more because they just got a playset of a card that can greatly improve the efficiency of their Refess starter!

3) No longer will you finally get a super useful card, like say a Proxy, if you get that lucky, and go "RATS! I cant use it since dont have cards of the second sphere". Similarly it makes getting those 4 and 5*s even more sweet since no longer will you have a case of getting a 4 or 5* that's not your sphere.

3) Bored of running the same deck over and over again? Well the time to get there has now just been quadrupled because you have 4 different starter decks to use and 4 different modded starters. Not to mention, you might even be able to pull out some competitive multisphere decks (I have not looked into creating multisphere decks with the current staters so I am not sure if it is possible or not)...if it is not possible it at least became a lot easier!

Thank you for taking the time to read this proposal/idea.

I would ask kindly for productive feedback and constructive criticisms with reasoning behind it so we can work on improving this idea.

Or if it is not feasible at all, reasons why it is not feasible so we can keep that cause in mind when creating future suggestions so we do not have multiple ideas all failing for the same cause.

edit: I made a mistake reading my alteil window...there are 96 cards in The Beginning set...not the ridiculous 753 number I wrote the first time.
edit 2: I messed up the number of cards in the Beginning set again. I know there are 96 unique cards, but total number of cards I am not sure and no longer have access to info about the older starters to calculate the number.
Last edited by Ginnazoh on Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby Azeryuu » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:10 pm

I see alot of strategy here with what deck you will choose to play with if you have all 4

;a38
;a39
;a40
;a41
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby Demongod » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:20 pm

Like this x10.

Edit: Down from x100 because 96 << 753
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby luckysvn777 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:01 pm

I see your suggestion and raise it with this:

People pick a starter (or heck, it would be fine if they have all the starters). Then, upon reaching level 15, they receive one of those beginner packs that were out earlier for free, instantly giving them options in all 4 spheres or letting them focus in one and boosting it hopefully to a level that's easier for them to win with without experience. Plus more variety is always good.

Alternative: they can pick a sphere specific beginner pack.
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby Peralisc2 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:06 pm

But wouldn't everyone be able to get all beginner cards with FM lotto?
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Alteil is pretty much well balanced. Sometimes you loose and sometimes the enemy wins.
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby Demongod » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:08 pm

I'd much rather save FM for getting the select rares I need for when point cards inevitably become cheaper.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby luckysvn777 » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:13 pm

Which is why i think a free beginner pack would be better. FM lotto for all the starter cards, and beginner packs for the modification needed to make 4 legit files for free.
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby Multi » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:55 am

I dunno if anybody forgot but... starter packs are sold in the shop for 1000gran. I dunno how often they actually sell these, and i personally think it's in everyone's best interests if we just allow all accounts to just have access to all the starters for free, I'm pretty sure I said this a long time ago too. We all can't deny that one of the reasons you're limited to 1 starter is so they can push the sales of the starter packs in the shop, which are also all non shield so you can recycle them for gran as well. Afterall, why allow us to make as many accounts as we want, but not allow us to have all 4 starters, or more than 1 at least on the same account?

I pretty much doubt this is a reason why we don't have FM lotto yet either, but i wouldn't hold it completely out of the possiblity that FM lotto is still being put at low priority because there's still profit to be made off the starter packs. Cheaper than a box, more expensive than a pack, but you know what's in it and it's supposed to be made with being playable from the get go in mind. I don't see it too often, but I know some newbies do intend to spend money do consider buying starter packs. A low prized FM lotto would be more useful than new avatars anyways. Even though some people would like to save FM for point cards, with the current FM point card prices, it's pretty much useless for anybody but a very select few to do so, IF it wasn't for the point card giveaways. Like I've said before, the FM point cards are the "point card exchange" to complete your "set" of point cards, so that you can exchange THOSE to complete your set of rares.

well, tl;dr i agree :V
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby 091816 » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:21 am

all in a go is a better solution but ppl may want more , maybe give ppl 1000 grans for ppl to decide or give ppl 2 starter deck to decide from
if gms want to boost the sale of the starter deck please sell set 1 to 3 starter decks , that will be a better solution
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Re: Potential Solution to All the Debate!

Postby Ginnazoh » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:09 am

I am in agreement with luckys idea of giving out free Beginner's Pack at level 15 in addition to my suggestion..

so that means everyone gets:
1) ALL the cards that EVER existed in ANY starter deck with a starter shield so you can't recycle, and
2) at level 15 they get a beginner's pack (45 1*s that are commonly considered to be useful to their starters...go look up the old posts to see what you could get from it)

But, before any of this can happen, there's lots of things that have to be considered and I'm sensing a lot of hoops to jump through with higher ups authorities.

I personally dont think this will compete too much with the sales of any of the starter decks because I dont think anyone would really buy them rather than start a new account...but I do not have the numbers behind this.

The beginner's pack is a bit iffy because I have the feeling that the sales when it was temporary available was decent, but the question would be was it decent because it was only temporary available (law of supply and demand) or was it decent because people actually thought it would be useful?
Personally I did not buy any Beginner packs because I decided to roll the dance and take a risk with lottos in hopes of that 3rd dalos or 4* or 5* rarity. And it paid off for me as I got probably less usable cards but the usable playset I did get made a greater contribution than the playsets from the Beginner's pack and I also got cards that would recycle for mroe than the 225 gran the Beginner's packs could would've recycled for. But this is because I play lawtia and I think it is generally agreed that the usable lawtia cards were mainly support units, whereas the refess had things like guardian and pegasus; and gowen had merc and etc.

Anyways, I don't know if the GMs are free to comment on the sales of there product so maybe to get around it, I would love to hear if the GMS/Mods think this idea is financially feasible and possible to implement?

Thank you
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