Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby yamas11 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:12 pm

Soiyeruda wrote:
yamas11 wrote:All CCG's have that “pay more, win more” problem, but Alteil seems to give a harder time in being able to collect specific cards. Also, the booster packs don't guranteed at least a 3 star in each pack, which is like not getting a rare card sometimes. What other CCG has booster packs that don't guranteed a rare card in each pack?


Alteil's booster packs are kinda like Yu-Gi-Oh!'s, where each booster pack gives you one card that isn't common. And Alteil booster packs always guarantees at least a 2* for boosters, if I'm right.


But that one card given in each Yugioh pack is of least Rare rarity and I don't consider the 2 stars in Alteil to be the rare cards. I think of them as,

1 star = Common
2 star = Uncommon
3 star = Rare
4 star = Super Rare
5 star = Ultra/Secret Rare
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:20 pm

Agreed, packs should guarantee a 3*...
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby Zanador » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:11 pm

Demongod: try going back to logical reasons for suggestions. You simply use too many emotional ones now, calm down, reanalyze the situation.

First of all, if you really think that games like Starcraft, Warcraft (and i bet Soulcalibur too, tho i dont know this one too much) is the same for you and me as it is for the firsttimers or the pros, then i have a couple of links to prove you wrong. A game is not the content, the rules, the physical form, a game is what you experience. Anyone who knows how the pieces move can play chess, the rules are the same, the pieces are the same, and the game is so vastly different as you progress...

Second, back to the original topic: if you could decide or deny the matchup, it would have a lots of side effects that i dont think you considered: not only would the ranking system become meaningless, we would lose even the weekly gran, thats for sure. Playing matches with yourself is illegal as far as i know, but playing "random" matches with your friends isnt. Who is to say how much weekly gran would it be possible to farm like this? Abusable-->not acceptable. And its nearly sure that the lvlup reward cards would be gone too, making this game really not free to play anymore (even is the MM stays, having only one way to earn gran left is not a solid base to a claim for free games).

Another important thing that most players tend to forget (and since you are new, you didnt have time yet to learn): "top tier" and "meta" decks are not necesserily the strongest, but nearly sure they arent the most efficient at least. They are damn strong, but whats more important: easy to learn, easy to use.
If you are just a little bit smarter than an npc, you know how to summon stardragon on turn 5, and you also know how to summon salamander on turn 6, and hit stardragon with it.
The simple fact is: along with the well known meta decks, there is allways a handful of other files with just as good win rate, but people dont copy them. Either they are hard to use, or they are so specialised that only the inventor is confortable with the style, or they are simply not that flashy. Hell, even i had an original deck with 90% win rate, and on my falkow acc i'm using a modded starter with ~70% win.
Paying players use decks with rare cards because they can, and if they can, why not? But its not like they couldnt play low rarity cards with similar results (while the original lycan rush is now rare, it didnt have more than one playset of 3* card in it, and even that wasnt neccesary).
Dont be so eager to divide the players and try to avoid the class struggle metaphore, because it undermines even your good and creative suggestions too.

Anyway, from the sound of it, i think you would like to play in the training arena more. No cut-throat competitive atmosphere, not just the best available decks, you can pick your opponent, and whats more, you can invite him to play too, not to mention you can arrange the decks so it wont be a mismatch for either of you. There used to be efforts to make the training arena popular for these reasons and even more, and most people actually enjoyed it and helped with promotion and plans. Maybe you should give it a try too.
Something must be wrong with me. I'm giving advices to someone i should kill.
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby ANIMEniac » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:36 pm

Can't compare full content game (unless you need to unlock feature like hidden characters), to a card game.

Let's try to take your examples of full content games, how about an MMO? Does everyone play the same game? Well, yea. But same goes with rules in Alteil, same mechanics for all. The difference is the item/skills/cards you gain playing. Someone may get luckier and finding a powerful item to gain advantage over you. Maybe someone has a nice build that trumps you. Maybe players have card to build decks you have trouble with. Do you expect those who have the "advantage" to even the ground for you? Nope, more than likely your lvl 20 is going to get steamed rolled by a decked out lvl 40 in the PvP zones.

Every game genre has different aspects to it. You can't expect "this or that" to be present in every game. If you wanted everyone on equal ground in Alteil, all the cards would be unlocked, but then there would be little business in it and very poor commitment involved. You want to severely put more restrictions on who you can battle to be fair? Have fun playing the same 2-3 people everyday, if anyone at all.

Card games has all been about collecting! That's right, hence it is called a Collectible Card Game. People who spend speed up the time it will take to collect. Collecting means more deck/effect options, and that is what draws people into buying/earning more.

I agree Alteil is a bit difficult on the collection side due to lack of options to chase certain cards since there is no secondary market.


As for rairty, yes, it sucks. But can't compare it to the US packs. In Japan, I recall YGO packs being much smaller (6 or so cards) with no Rare guarantee. US packs are usually double the size and put in a guaranteed Rare. I think I would gladly pay a little more for packs with more cards and a guaranteed 3*. Alteil packs pretty much follows what a huge majority of Japanese CCGs go by.
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby Demongod » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:41 pm

Anime, your comparison to an MMO is exactly what I have a problem with. In an MMO, the mechanics are simplistic, and the winner is usually determined not by skill but by the quality of factors determined before the actual confrontation. I was hoping that Alteil wouldn't be determined by "I have better cards than you! I = teh winr4r!"

Now I'm not arguing that skill can't make up for a lack of cards--I'm just saying it only goes so far--and a lot less far than so many people like luckysvn, Fargone, Porky, etc... make it out to be. I'm sure that by now those free players they hold in high regard don't play with those same green and yellow shielded cards they got on day one, but augmented them with so many different things that there's very little resemblance anymore.

Now of course, I could be completely and utterly wrong, and that somehow, through some crazy hocus-pocus, the best Gowen Rush player is simply taking the starter and beating down Guardians and Star Dragons all day.

But somehow...I really seem to think that this isn't the case, as much as I would love it to be.

Certainly, the reason I quit MtG was that it simply became a matter of netdecking and metagaming 90% of the way, and then practicing the actual match-ups to tweak the deck the other 10%. I remember back in high school, there was this man who we shall call DC (those were his initials), that traveled all the way down to Maryland or Delaware, I believe it was, back in Odyssey type 2 (we went to high school in South Jersey, in Cherry Hill, if you know where that is), to play in the pro tour qualifiers. Why? Because he was running psychatog and said that too many people played blue-green madness.

See, here's the thing--if every matchup was winnable on sheer skill alone, this game would be amazing. But a lot of the time, it can really infuriate you. For instance, you know you don't have a counter to a certain card, and lo and behold, another deck built right around that very card. These kinds of matchups exist, meaning that the counter circle isn't yet complete. What I mean by that is this:

X counters Y counters Z counters X. Right now, if a Gowen Rush player KNOWS his opponent is playing guardian, he can't play <<GUARDIANPWNER>> and say "HA! YOU'RE F'D!" the same way a guardian player can play guardian and say "Ha! Your gowen deck is now hosed!"
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Hello and welcome to what they call a "card game"

Seriously, if that's the way you are going to think about it, then honestly, card games are really not for you...
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby ANIMEniac » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:25 pm

I don't really see Alteil as having better card = win.

The basics is some type of cards/strats have better advantage b/c of their effects. The big emphasis is on how we use and play them.
- The usual Kurina>Spore open I can deal with and predict
- The Blitz Soldier open is a pain
- Apprentice or Brave Soldier with panther soul can cause havoc against the right decks

My Lelein deck thrives on aggro. But something as wimpy as a Shield Knight open can put me back. Stall and build the field means I lose. I probabyl have the "better" cards in terms of rarity, but I can lose to a deck with nothing higher than a 3*.

The thing I like about Alteil is that decks are much smaller and we have choices to play what we want when we want. Other CCGs is random draws. Other CCGs you can stick loads of OP cards to help outplay the other people (YGO is famous for this). In Alteil, you have to be a little more selective, thus it means you can't have something ready for everything.

In your case, Guardian will be your bane until you can get a removal card (Assassin, Sal Soldier, Invis Druid). Hopefully new starters are on the horizon (but won't help you since you won't get it). You can look at your situation as a sinkhole or look at it as setting a goal to achieve (get Assassin or Sal Soldier). Until then, you will have to eat the Guardian loss or find a different way to deal with it. My favorite deck still struggles with Guardian (I hate it so much I refuse to play it in Refress).

Gowen has been one of the most annoying to me, right out of the starter even. I see no other deck be able to set 80% of it's deck and potential form 1 SS (Dryad Soldier). What other sphere can send out level 2s that are on par with level 3 and 4s?
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby luckysvn777 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:30 am

You know what the funny thing is that I noticed?

No matter how much longer i play or what file i play or how many cards I have, I seem to always average around 1950 RP. Whether it be mid lawt or gowen rush or Starmander

Darn, need to get that extra 50 in skill and reach 2K consistently xD
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby Peralisc2 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:54 am

Is the price of alteil on the player end too high? Yes it is.

No wonder people are leaving or don't even start being here.

Certainly, the reason I quit MtG was that it simply became a matter of netdecking and metagaming 90% of the way, and then practicing the actual match-ups to tweak the deck the other 10%.

Alteil is a matter of counter decks. Play counter right and autowin.
ImageImage
Alteil is pretty much well balanced. Sometimes you loose and sometimes the enemy wins.
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Re: Another suggestion to the matchmaking system

Postby luckysvn777 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:03 am

Eh what?

I don't ever play counter-decks... i'd prefer to just play files that in general strong against most files... like mid lawt or SK..

Then again, how exactly do you define counter deck? Because i'm thinking like Witch vs lycan counter decks.. which is silly
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