Fix for PointCard System

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby garcia1000 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:37 am

Hey staffs and so on there is no negativity in this thread, only ice cream, kittens, fluffy bunnies, and teddy bears, so it is totally fine to weigh in! :D
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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby Romdeau » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:41 am

garcia1000 wrote:Hey staffs and so on there is no negativity in this thread, only ice cream, kittens, fluffy bunnies, and teddy bears, so it is totally fine to weigh in! :D

*smite ;attack

Back to your corner of kittens and fluffy bunnies.

:p
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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby DWildstar » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:46 pm

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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby luckysvn777 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:07 pm

Don't suppose you can get him to reply to my reply of his reply? I'm curious what he thinks actually about that
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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby Xovian » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:14 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:Don't suppose you can get him to reply to my reply of his reply? I'm curious what he thinks actually about that

I read your reply Lucky.
I think you are correct and he should give a bit to thought to what you said.
That many wins a week, and then 6 weeks on top of that.... that's a grind in and of itself, and it easily rivals "grinding" of games like Lineage.
I've managed to get 60 point cards once, and currently have NONE, and with only 4kish FM currently.
Yaaaay, i might be able to buy 2.
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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby luckysvn777 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:24 pm

Well, given his response to my response now, I can see a bit better what they are trying to do with point cards.. but I think this raises a important and perhaps overlooked area of point cards that might allow a compromise to be reached. Logress mentioned the idea of a fixed point card rate. The problem right now is that its too low. However, with more widespread point cards distribution events, like 5 of 7 and Organized Play, that point card rate might be high enough to make the system come together finally. Of course, for that to happen, we need to have a lot more 5 of 7 like events and the Organized Play set-up should be implemented as soon as possible so we can start having multiple tournaments to give out these point cards.

The nice thing about that is that not only could it make point cards work, the combination of those widespread events and tourneys would greatly encourage player participation as well.
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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby Phenoca » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:18 am

I am thinking of spending my point cards on cemetery rats, instant revival, lavende, or... Oh right - I already have three Safirias.
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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby harvest4god » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:31 am

I am 23 point cards from a third bringer. Unless I get really lucky with my pack a week.
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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby Peralisc2 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:38 pm

Phenoca wrote:I am thinking of spending my point cards on cemetery rats, instant revival, lavende, or... Oh right - I already have three Safirias.

And if you do that you regret it if you get them in the next lotto draw.
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Re: Fix for PointCard System

Postby Demongod » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:13 pm

The quote from Logress that DWild uses to go around locking threads:

Logress wrote:As for Point Cards, our original proposal was to more or less follow the Recycle system, but we ended up with a slight compromise with the Japanese system (where you are punished even more for redeeming for low rarity cards). The reason is that getting new random cards and getting new cards of your choice are pretty non-comparable. For example, let's say you can get 10 Point Cards a week. You can wait 6 weeks for a copy of a 5*, that will give you an awesome SS or let you recycle for enough to buy an EX pack or something. But that's 6 weeks of no benefit from those point cards. But let's say you're playing the Lawtia and you're angling for Night. Week 1 you get a Succubus, week 2 you get a second Succubus. Now, you're probably going to get more wins and win more treasure battles for 4 to 5 of those weeks (this example can be replaced with Sea Serpent, Mercenary, whatever). So by waiting you're giving up 4-5 weeks of extra Gran (even if you don't make more than 10 from weekly, you still will be recycling on treasure battles) and extra cards. As long as there is a fixed speed to earn Point Cards, whatever that speed is, and as long as we don't make 1-stars weak, 2-stars stronger and 5-stars the strongest, the cost of waiting to cash in the true cost. This is also why you can't efficiently "buy" point cards, they don't really operate like a currency at all, more like a measure of time (not your time, time passing in general). This has the unfortunate side effect that it always kind of feels like you're ripping yourself off if you don't wait (reminds me of the old Legend of the 5 Rings RPG I played in college, where you paid with EXP to raise your stats, but you only paid for the final stat you bought, and it didn't matter what your current level was so you were always waiting to raise it all at once with saved up EXP. Meanwhile, the GM was there threatening you if you didn't start raising some stats soon your character wouldn't be able to deal with the next adventure and would die... good times. Does it still run with that system?).


Theory, shmeory. As someone getting a master's in statistics (which still has more theory than I'd appreciate), I'd like to speak empirically.

I made the top iczer list several weeks in a row. Right now, I've been with Alteil for oh...a month and a half? I have a little over 40,000 FM.

So let's say by the end of this month, I manage to raise it to 50,000 FM.

Logress's example was ten point cards per week.

In reality, I believe that number is closer to ten point cards per month.

Furthermore, given the strength of some of these cards, it only really makes sense to spend it on 5-stars. Right now, one-stars are worth 50 gran in point cards, two-stars 100 gran, three stars 150 gran, four-stars 250 gran, and five-stars 300 gran.

All of these aside from the three stars are brutally overcosted compared to their recycle values. As Luckysvn777 has said, the exchange rate should be 1/2/6/30/60. Even so, it would still take four times as long for someone to obtain a five-star they wanted. Logress said six weeks. At my rate (perhaps an outlier), it would take six months.

Bob000 has been around for I don't know how long (you have his data but he's been playing much longer than I have) and he still has not enough for a single five-star in terms of FM.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

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