isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

User suggestions to improve the game

isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby surignum » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:15 pm

* note * i havent been on the forums in months....so ive there is another thread already created......get over yourself and dont post complaints here. kthanksbye


okay, so ive seen many, Many great players in alteil lately, and have become acquanited with them. I ask if theyd like to join the guild and they always ask " what are the benefits" or " i see no purpose in a guild" I always try to reassure them that there are other legitimate benefits to being in a guild other than bragging rights, like direct communication with guild members through the forums, mail, etc...and the guild wars events....oh wait, this is 2009 :P

there obviously needs to be some sort of incentive to make izcars want to join in guilds, which SHOULD/IS DESIRED TO create more intense/competitive gameplay, which should eventually lead to a bigger playerbase, more reason to buy cards, and more profit for management!

The benefits would obviously be dolled out based on the guild rankings,but with OBK and royal, SRX etc, always being in the top 3 or so, maybe be granted to the top 5 guilds. The only counter arguement to how far they are distributed could be the somewhat less than average amount of active members, most of them probably included in the top 5 guilds, which wouldnt really allow for any competitive play, as they would always be up there in the rankings....this would be up to the creators obviously...

i would assume the best method for distributing said benefits would be with the weekly guild rankings...nothing huge, but something that should leave a little glimmer of hope in every izcar's eye, and a reward for their hard work.

It would also have to be something that is appealing, but also that isnt too much of a sacrifice to the alteil team....gran is OBVIOUSLY the most appealing choice, but deciding what specific amount could be tedious. fight money would be less appreciated, but still a better choice than none at all. now because it takes 2500 Fm before anything even happens with it, and than you need to do this X 10 to even accomplish anything it, if fight money were to be distributed, it would be decided based on this factor. since you get 30 fm per win, the guild benefit would need to be ( in my opinion) about 4 or 5 times this amount, considering the MAJORITY ( not the top 100, but the majority :P) only play a handful of matches a day, if not a week. to me 200 fight money a week sounds quite right. I feel this way, because combined with the amount of wins the izcar gets, it should take about 7 - 12 weeks before they are able to get one point card.. i think this time period is long, but the team needs to establish something that is rewarding, but not a charity. I dont think that 200 weekly gran( and smaller or larger denominations to other guilds i guess) would inhibit on the revenue of the company.

now gran is a harder decision, because if you give too much of it away, youll kill the money maker.....and that would be bad...a gran incentive should be only enough to create a sense in izcars to want to be in a higher ranked guild in order to recieve a weekly gran bonus.. By instilling this sense, it would seem apropriate that the iczars will play harder to make it so that their guilds rank is higher, which includes more hours, the possible recruitment of more people to the guild and eventually Alteil itself, and ultimately more card purchases. seeing as how gran is already distributed through the amount of wins collected in folrart, many of the alteil leaders will say it is an uneccessary amount of rewarding, but were not looking at the rewards for wins in the iczars sense alone, but the rewarding of guilds in the hope that they will become a more valued and intricate part of alteil. Many of the top players earn around 25-30 gran a week ( with the obvious exceptions who make about 60...and we ALL know who im talking about :P) But contrary i stated before about making the fight money reward 4 or 5 times the amount you earn on your own, doing this with gran would be a bad idea. In my opinion, If gran were to be distributed, it would have to be a low enough amount that the Alteil team wouldnt Lose money and gain profit (* cause that is Alteils #1 priority, along with any other business...they are going to cater to you as much as possilbe, but their intent is to make money, not make you happy...they just happen to do that coincedentally ;P) so the true appeal would have to be in the Leaders of alteils eyes, not the hungry iczar. than again, it would have to be an amount that is high enough to spark said interest in guilds, rather than a feeling of like, for example "....i can make like...20 times that a week without breaking a sweat, id rather do it on my own than have to join a guild to do it."....we would obviously ( in the best case scenario :P) want to creat this sort of situation ;

" OH! wow! so if im in a high enough ranked guild, i will recieve weekly gran bonnuses along with my gran earned from folrart wins? than i need to join a guild quick, play alot more than i have before, and do whatever i can to help in the guilds rankings, even if that inclues buying more cards, because if i buy more cards, i have a better chance of winnin, which means i have a better chance of increasing the guilds rank, which means i have a better chance at getting a weekly gran bonus, which means i have a better chance to acquire free cards ( which is EVERY SINGLE ICZARS QUEST). Even though im going to buy cards now, itll pay off in the long run cause itll help me acquire more free ones!!! I ARE a GEENIUS! Alteil will never catch on to my master planz!!!"

i dont feel like typing much more on this :P...but this should be a no brainer...if we can create tournaments, guild forums { TYVM ;) } and even the point card system in general, we should be able to accomplish this.

now have at it with the Flames, agreements, opinions, links to other chat threads ( :P ) and whatever you will have done.

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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby surignum » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:17 pm

* and keep in mind, the only things i suggested here were fight money and gran...there are other incentives that could be created, as in more banners, guild specific titles, better rewards for guilds with less players than those with packed amounts, .....maybe in the future...even ....tournament based games in which ...something nice and shiny is distributed :P

what do you think?!
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Demongod » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:32 pm

I don't like benefits based on rankings. That only serves to make the rich richer. However, I was thinking this, and this might seem far out there:

Guilds share all FM and cards.

That way, say I manage to roll a Bog Wyvern or Sea Serpent in the lottery, but I'm a Gowen player. I'm sure that Garcia would love to use that card (we're in the same guild). Wouldn't it be nice if I could borrow his Gowen cards, and he could borrow my Falkow cards?

I think this would leave everyone better off.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby luckysvn777 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:52 pm

Ah, but then you run into a problem similar to that with public goods... "why pay when others can do it for me?"
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Moth » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:07 pm

Demongod wrote:I don't like benefits based on rankings. That only serves to make the rich richer. However, I was thinking this, and this might seem far out there:

Guilds share all FM and cards.

That way, say I manage to roll a Bog Wyvern or Sea Serpent in the lottery, but I'm a Gowen player. I'm sure that Garcia would love to use that card (we're in the same guild). Wouldn't it be nice if I could borrow his Gowen cards, and he could borrow my Falkow cards?

I think this would leave everyone better off.


wouldn't work on so many points.

firstly alteil is a business and allowing cards to be so easily available would significantly reduce the number of people spending money on gran, which is bad for business. Imagine with just one more person in your guild, you more or less double your card pool. Another person in your guild triples your card pool. Considering how easy it is to make a guild, and alt accounts, a free player could get every single card in the game far too easily (perhaps a few months of MM?). Nobody would buy gran and alteil would close down. everybody loses.

secondly what would happen if 2 guild members face off against each other in the arena (it happens).They can't "share" the same cards or phantom copies of their shared cards. It would essentially be card duplication. Which again can't be good for business.

demongod, pls pls try to put yourself in the shoes of the creators/GMs. Would you spend so much effort to design/program/balance a card game, only to give the whole thing away for free? think like a businessman before thinking like a player so that you don't give suggestions that obviously won't ever be implemented.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Galandros » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:09 pm

"What's that silver flag by your name mean?" - It's the 10k gran Alteil question I am asked several times a week by newer players who were not around during Guild Wars 1.

I am all for implementing small changes that slightly improve the benefit of being in a guild. One could be that at a certain level a guild is given a background or some other avatar accessory that is given to all guild members. A badge they can display for their efforts/contributions to their guild.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:17 pm

While I'm all for having more guild benefits, I think the reason the guilds haven't been changed more and we haven't had a second guild war is because the guild issue is pretty low on the priority spectrum for the game right now. I know personally that I can think of an awful lot of changes off hand I'd rather them be working on then guild benefits right now.

Galandros wrote:"What's that silver flag by your name mean?" - It's the 10k gran Alteil question I am asked several times a week by newer players who were not around during Guild Wars 1.


:lol: Its funny cause its true for me too. Its also kind of funny how the flag isn't tied to a guild but to a player, since my old guild that we got that silver flag in no longer even exists yet out flags live on. Not that I'm complaining mind you, I still look onto it proudly, but it can incorrectly lead people to believe my current guild took the silver when they were in fact the ones who took gold so its kind of not doing my current guild justice.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Peralisc2 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:44 pm

Suri, i agree with you on this. Problem is that if they agree or not it will take about an year at least to get something done. :(
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Demongod » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:51 pm

Moth wrote:
Demongod wrote:I don't like benefits based on rankings. That only serves to make the rich richer. However, I was thinking this, and this might seem far out there:

Guilds share all FM and cards.

That way, say I manage to roll a Bog Wyvern or Sea Serpent in the lottery, but I'm a Gowen player. I'm sure that Garcia would love to use that card (we're in the same guild). Wouldn't it be nice if I could borrow his Gowen cards, and he could borrow my Falkow cards?

I think this would leave everyone better off.


wouldn't work on so many points.

firstly alteil is a business and allowing cards to be so easily available would significantly reduce the number of people spending money on gran, which is bad for business. Imagine with just one more person in your guild, you more or less double your card pool. Another person in your guild triples your card pool. Considering how easy it is to make a guild, and alt accounts, a free player could get every single card in the game far too easily (perhaps a few months of MM?). Nobody would buy gran and alteil would close down. everybody loses.

secondly what would happen if 2 guild members face off against each other in the arena (it happens).They can't "share" the same cards or phantom copies of their shared cards. It would essentially be card duplication. Which again can't be good for business.

demongod, pls pls try to put yourself in the shoes of the creators/GMs. Would you spend so much effort to design/program/balance a card game, only to give the whole thing away for free? think like a businessman before thinking like a player so that you don't give suggestions that obviously won't ever be implemented.


1) No, the card pool never doubles. If the person stays in the guild, the guild gets more cards. If he leaves, then the guild loses those cards. Furthermore, I thought about the issue of "spamming alts", and the reality is that guilds only have the capacity for so many members, to the point that Garcia had to kick some of his own alts out.

2) As for two people facing off against each other in the arena sharing the same cards, why not? Don't get me started on "phantom copies". These aren't physical items. You can create as many as you want.

3) And once again "please put yourself in other people's shoes"...from a business perspective, you can see my signature. If you don't increase the player base, you're certainly not increasing revenues. The patrons will continue to patronize. Beyond that, I've made my stance on zero-sum, artificial-scarcity business models quite clear by now. As for trying to think of ways to maximize revenue beyond that, without a free player base that constantly grows, the card gap between old and new players will simply continue to increase, and newer free players will face a worse game than free players currently. This will continue to the unsustainable, to the point that the only players really left will be the patrons such as Inigo and Xovian. If you want to go that way, be my guest. In the meantime, all of my suggestions are aimed at preventing that.

Edit: as for me designing and balancing a game and all that, there's a difference between me giving it away, and it being free to consume. The choice here is simply in the business model. There are other business models besides zero-sum.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby luckysvn777 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:23 pm

Except a lot of your suggestions would, in my opinion, tank the game before any of the positive effects of those changes would take route... which is why you have to actually look in it from their perspective..
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