isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby surignum » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:37 pm

it cant be allowed to "share cards" between guilds, because if that is allowed, people are going to argue for being able to "transfer" gran, FM, and cards between accts....and that wont happen....

and everyone knows any guild changes are going to take forever....but the more we complain about it, the faster it might get done :P
and i would love a certain background or emblem addition to display for your guild contributions, thats a great idea!

and with the guilds priority...hmmm.....the only thing i can see that would have more priority than the guilds is the cards that are unbalanced and need to be nerfed, and thats constantly happening so i dont pay it much attention...i figure its going to happen anyway, so id rather focus on things that arent huge, but are a pain..like teh guilds...but no doubt, there is probably something that is more important than guild benefits that should be dealt with first, but my mind is apt at letting things slip by.

and demon....while said benefits might make the "rich richer, it would only be by a insignificant amount, and the iczars, if truly bothered by the " rich getting richer" have the opportunity to stop them from "getting richer" by becoming better players and fighting to make whatever guild they are in better as a whole, in an attempt to knock off the top guilds....making them no longer able to "get richer".....and allowing yourself to "get richer"


.......you make it seem as if this idea would just benefit paying players and **** over non paying players, but you need to realize, the core theme of this idea is to gather the alteil community around something, and HELP THE NON-PAYING PLAYERS GET SOME GRAN.....which is what you non paying doodes never shut up about...like srsly...i think the guild idea is an efficient one, because in order for it to directly benefit YOU, YOU have to put forth some effort and think and strategize to help your guild out to earn it...noone likes donating to open arms, when theyve got plenty of arms willing to pay them :P
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Ginnazoh » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:52 pm

I want to see guild tournaments. I think we need something to generate interest in this game other than the regular dueling.

Say monthly guild tournaments...or bi weekly, have overall guild standings, have seasons by guild where the guilds are ranked by performance during tourny and any guild that takes place in all the tournies get something while the guild get prizes according to rankings.

Generate some excitement I think would be the main purpose of guild, give this game some hype and some reason for everyone to log on at say 4 to 7 or 9 to 11 on a saturday to play Alteil. I know for one I'm only on this game when I'm bored/taking a break from doing other stuff...and you can see by the fact that demongod who has been around for around half the time i've been around has more games played and is higher level than me by quite a large margin....and i'm probably only all the board so much because some of the posts are really frustrating for me to read that I feel obligated to reply and point out the flaws i observe in hope of either shooting down hopeless ideas or giving suggestions through criticism of how to improve the idea...or just to compliment good ideas, like this one and DanTheTimid's box idea.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby surignum » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:22 pm

i knew someone would move the topic :P


theres love all around for the idea! i know how we can make it happen quicker!

....dont put any money into alteil till they do it :P STRIKE! XD
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Peralisc2 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:20 pm

1) No, the card pool never doubles. If the person stays in the guild, the guild gets more cards. If he leaves, then the guild loses those cards. Furthermore, I thought about the issue of "spamming alts", and the reality is that guilds only have the capacity for so many members, to the point that Garcia had to kick some of his own alts out.

I prefer if there would be a guild card pool like this, considering level 5 is maximum for a guild:
For every level the guild master can pick a card and that card can be use by all members (up to 3 copies for all members!!).
Level 1 guild- 1 star of guildmasters choice
Level 2 guild- also allows a 2 star of guildmasters choice
Level 3 guild- also a 3 star
Level 4 - 4 star
Level 5 - 5 star

You might then pick guild depending on the card pool! xD
And to change these extra cards let's say the guildmaster or a member has to pay gran to buy a "change ticket" or something. 1 free change ticket is given out every new set!! :o

Maybe have a guild emblem on those cards.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby garcia1000 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:28 pm

I like the idea of a guild card pool!

A guild card pool neatly gets around the 'no trading' thing, but also provides tangible guild benefits.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Demongod » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:35 am

garcia1000 wrote:I like the idea of a guild card pool!

A guild card pool neatly gets around the 'no trading' thing, but also provides tangible guild benefits.


Really.

Furthermore, if it matters, then simply individual cards could be player-owned, but files themselves would be guild-owned, and when a player is searching with a certain file, it is inaccessible to the rest of the members in the guild.

However, considering that a guild is limited to six players, the idea essentially is that if you have a player of each color, then far fewer cards would actually be useless, because at least one player in each guild would theoretically be able to use any card in the entire guild's collection.

Would this then have many players want to mooch off of someone like Inigo or Luckysvn or Xavion or Porky? Absolutely. It would then be the prerogative of said players with whom to guild. Furthermore, I believe this would idea would allow people to introduce their friends to Alteil. Say you've been playing for a year and have multiple files already made that can compete. You introduce your friend to Alteil, put him in your guild, and let him play to his heart's content, and see how much he wants to contribute to the card pool.

In the end, however, there would really be no increase in card pools for anyone.

You would still, after all, have six people using the cards of six people.

The only difference is that in this case, one man's trash is another man's treasure.

The only reason to possibly be against this is to simply create as much artificial scarcity to do your best to try and wring blood from a rock.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:03 am

You would still, after all, have six people using the cards of six people.


This is exactly where you are wrong though.

You would instead have six people using the cards of... one person. Because one person would be the one getting all the cards (i.e spending) and the rest would be all moochers. The good ol public good effect in action.

Not only is it obviously a bad call on the business end of Alteil and thus not going to happen, it frankly goes against the spirit of the game. Of course, I've said that against all your "get everything for free" type proposals, so you've already seen that coming.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Demongod » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:43 am

luckysvn777 wrote:
You would still, after all, have six people using the cards of six people.


This is exactly where you are wrong though.

You would instead have six people using the cards of... one person. Because one person would be the one getting all the cards (i.e spending) and the rest would be all moochers. The good ol public good effect in action.

Not only is it obviously a bad call on the business end of Alteil and thus not going to happen, it frankly goes against the spirit of the game. Of course, I've said that against all your "get everything for free" type proposals, so you've already seen that coming.


And what's to stop that one spending person from simply leaving the guild? If said person wants to spend all that money and then let five others borrow his cards, is that not his prerogative?

You act as though this one person was suddenly forced to remain in this guild and provide five other people with cards. How is this the case?

Edit: in fact, I designed this idea with a guild of non-spenders in mind. That we all get cards through lotto and daily gran and saving for ex packs and so on, and not shelling out a zillion bucks and making a mockery out of a potentially viable set of mechanics for a competitive game.

I designed this idea with the idea of the M:tG pro tour teams in mind. That you have a collection of players who all participate equally and share their resources amongst themselves to achieve the best results for everyone in the group than if each player acted alone.

You cite a theoretical "public goods" problem, but you know as well as I do that there are ways this would enforce itself not to run into those issues.

For starters, with only six people in the guild, everyone would have to carry his own weight, especially if said high-roller is the guild founder and can kick out moochers at will.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:11 am

Its certainly true

However, you then run into an even more drastic issue, and one that you seem so very against. The rich get richer. What's to stop the spenders from forming a guild together and then instantly having access to every single card in the game.

Sure, it would be useful perhaps for a guild of freebies... but the second you introduce a paying player into the equation, you either get the public good effect (bad) or you end up with all the spenders having everything (rich getting richer). And no, you can't deny those rights to spending players to have the card pooling.

Either way, it seems like a problem to me.
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Re: isnt it about time we got some guild benefits?!

Postby Demongod » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:26 am

What's to stop the mega-spenders from pooling together and creating a bunch of broken decks?

The idea that even if you'd spend a million dollars on Alteil, that you still wouldn't have a deck that can simply roll over a modded starter--any modded starter.

In other words, that rarity doesn't determine card power.

Which judging by looking at Annarose more often than not, Eskatia, Verlaat, EX Riza, and other 5-stars that simply give rise to whole new archetypes accessible only to those who have them, is certainly not the case.

At the moment.

But once again, if Alteil US wants to throw its reputation to the wolves as a "pay enough and your money will be mistaken for skill" game and alienate so many potential players, well, I'm sounding like a broken record here.

And no, we can't deny them the right.

But we can of course give them the Goldman Sachs treatment and burn them in effigy for destroying competitiveness by simply abusing the power of cash until they relent and make free accounts or drive away the player base.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

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