Less repeats in boxes

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby LoneKnight » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:08 am

Of course I haven't played proxys, they are 5* cards. And without having the cards to prove I won't claim what you are saying is wrong ... But do you think it will be true, like, 2 sets from now?

In regards to Fierte... aren't you actually proving my point? I mean, read my post, try to understand what it says. Anime said that if he'd would be more accessible, I'd whine about it if Ihad the Proxys. To which I have answered that my current deck is already countered by every second SS,one of the top tier meta decks,not to mention not standing a chanceagainst primclone and yet I am not whining (except maybe about prim. seriously, sh*t's broken). So if people used Fierte, I'd probably do what I'm doing now and try to outplay them. How does you saying that if you had Fierte you'd try to outplay me invalidates any of that? Isn't that the point of the game?

The very fact that noone found a real good use for those cards 3 sets later just proves that they aren't widely accessible to be used imho.
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Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby MTCosta » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:42 am

ANIMEniac wrote:It's easy to say "make it cheaper and more will buy". But is that really the case? Who knows, it is all really a guess and a choice to execute or not.

If Alteil's cards were cheaper, will more players buy? Some can argue yes. Some may end up buying a little more at lower cost (like if EX cards were cheaper, I could spend a little more for more sets of some). Some may spend less seeing as they got what they wanted at lower cost. Will "free" players decide to buy at lower prices? Or will they keep on the "free ride".

Look at WoW. They still charge a pretty high premium even though they are so successful. Why don't they drop the price to try to grab more players?
Why is AION the same price as WoW, even though it is not as big?
Why was a pre-owned copy of Disgea $45+ at Gamestop when the sealed game is $50?

There are many other factors to think about in marketing. You can't just go out and say "do this and then this happens". You need to analyze and try to predict the market and trends and have hard data before you can offer something drastic as a price change.

Here's something that's NOT a guess: this game has an incredibly small playerbase for being over a year old. It's also in the red, or so I've heard. Comparing this to WoW is silly, because WoW has been incredibly successful with their pricing scheme, so why change it? You change your prices when the current prices aren't working. The current prices aren't working right now.

Market research would help, but to be honest I think that's just an excuse the GMs throw around when they don't want to admit how restrictive the Japanese are. I mean this discussion about prices and free players has been going on for months, and people have made several good suggestions, and they've had plenty of time to act on or consider those suggestions, so what's up?
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Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby Multi » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:57 pm

Hasn't this thread started going super way off topic?

I think i proposed this idea a while ago too, I'd like to see within boxes some kind of code that doesn't allow more than 3 of a card repeating. Only within the box, it doesn't matter if you already have that card, but it's obnoxious to buy a box and get 8 or 9 of several cards. This should definitely be considered on boxes. It's not a big deal since you will probably very rarely get more than 3 of a 5*, 4*, or 3*, but getting 5 or 6 of a 2* is just a waste. If you want to satisfy your playerbase of smaller spenders, you want them to get as many 2* and 1* sets out of a box as possible. Something similar to the beginner packs we had, where the likelyhood or getting more than 3 of a card out of the pool was either very low or nonexistant.

This is what gold boxes should've been, considering the premium price on it, some players care about the higher rarity, but most players who would only be able to afford one, $30 range, would probably appreciate repeats not going over 3, rather than a guaranteed 5* which they wouldn't be able to use. Though honestly, I don't see why both couldn't be implemented.

I'm only talking about each "package" of course, if you buy 2 boxes, the possibility of receiving 3 of a card in one box and 3 of the same card in a 2nd box would still exist, but because of how large the gold box package is, and also how fairly large the regular box package is, there should be a safeguard against extremely high repeats. Nobody will EVER need more than 3 of a card. Boxes probably aren't coded as the opening of 24 packs or whatever, but of just 360 card pulls @ x% rarity rate. I could always be wrong though.
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Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby Ginnazoh » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:08 pm

lone knight, my point was that using fierte to counter proxies is in favor of fierte ss because if you are delaying the opponent from using the proxy, you are slowing them down more than slowing yourself since a deck using fierte ss usually only needs 2 sphere level or 3 in either gowen or lawtia (gowen rush or lycan rush) to summon their units...where as proxies need 3 in one sphere and another 4 or 5 in another sphere...

and as for your claim that they aren't widely accessible to be used, I believe all the top players have proxies ranging from Mavel to Inigo to Porky to Worthing to Galandros to anyone else who was top ten RP last set. Other than Primclone being multisphered and using proxy, I did not see them using any proxy. Are you saying these top players who have created/popularized most of the meta in this game (from eternal night to shrine knight to magic doll to primclone) could not come up with a single good way to use these other proxies?

What is so surprising about 5*s that no one uses 3 sets later...look at strike samurai thunderbolt or bounty hunter elena or death incarnate proposition...whats wrong with adding proxies to the list? Again, I think you are over estimating the powers of proxies simply because you have yet to use them and thus you have not been able to experience their weak points...I personally thought having limier would make Lawtia + Refess decks piece of cake to make and win with...I got limier then I realized that a Lawtia + Refess deck is still ridiculously hard to make and use...

Also, I think I brought up in another thread but I think Fierte SS is a new player's god send. Sure its rare, but HOW many 4 or 5*s are there in this game where a SINGLE copy will allow you to trample top tier decks? Fierte SS can really only be used in a select number of decks and by select number I mean 2...gowen rush and lycan/en. lycan/en is a dying breed because of cards like sergis ss and other max hp manipulation and cyclone. gowen rush is usually run by free players...

Let me phrase this another way, would SK, Command dolls, Primclone, Eternal Morning, MidLawt, Ex Lappierre...or any of these "payers-only" meta use fierte? (the exception being EN/lycan which I already stated)

I think the answer is no.

Would gowen rush use it? Yes. Who usually runs gowen rush? Gowen starters and mostly free players.

Thus, I view fierte as a great card for free players...it is a rare card (for sure) but it is a rare card that mostly help free players who uses gowen starter (which to me seems like more than 50% of free players) and it helps these players a LOT, while not really helping payers.





And multi thats why I'm asking how its coded. it does sound like 360 pulls with X% chance of getting something since they fixed it to at least 1 5*. But what the mechanism behind it is something we dont know and can only guess at.
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Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby Demongod » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:54 pm

Problem with Fierte is that Gowen also needs rank 5. So unless you're talking Fierte Dryad Soldier (or even more hilariously, vanilla Fierte EX Fierte in SS order), I don't think she's a good fit there.

Lycans/EN is still very solid. So is UD, that only needs level 3. Especially with the brokenness that is magic doll healer on hellsmoke. (1 of them I can deal with...but the second one will get through which is when it becomes a massive problem)
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

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Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby Ginnazoh » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:35 pm

So anyways in reply to multi's post, will we ever find out the mechanism behind the boxes in alteil?

Is it just a situation where buy buying a box set we get the X number of boosters and open up X number of boosters at the discount rate? Or is there an entire different mechanism behind it?

Im curious about this because I seemingly always get more 3 4 and 5*s from boosters than box sets...
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Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby ANIMEniac » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:40 pm

MTCosta wrote:Here's something that's NOT a guess: this game has an incredibly small playerbase for being over a year old. It's also in the red, or so I've heard. Comparing this to WoW is silly, because WoW has been incredibly successful with their pricing scheme, so why change it? You change your prices when the current prices aren't working. The current prices aren't working right now.

Market research would help, but to be honest I think that's just an excuse the GMs throw around when they don't want to admit how restrictive the Japanese are. I mean this discussion about prices and free players has been going on for months, and people have made several good suggestions, and they've had plenty of time to act on or consider those suggestions, so what's up?


Gold Boxes was the step they were allowed to take, which was an improvement to many eyes. We can speculate all day about why things don't get cheaper.
- License issues
- Unwanted Alteil competition: there's a Taiwan version. I think they don't want to cause customers from TW to move to US b/c it is much cheaper.
- Revenue expectations
- Developers too busy with their own thing to work on US stuff
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Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby Harion » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:50 pm

we who have stuck for so long with alteil have a love-hate relationship with it...
My goal is not to win, but to have fun.
But since winning is fun, I can't help but to make winning my goal.
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Bear killing axe-man was meant to be what it's name suggests - a killer unit. Sadly, there were no bears to kill in Alteil.
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Re: Less repeats in boxes

Postby Eldena » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:27 pm

ANIMEniac wrote:
MTCosta wrote:Here's something that's NOT a guess: this game has an incredibly small playerbase for being over a year old. It's also in the red, or so I've heard. Comparing this to WoW is silly, because WoW has been incredibly successful with their pricing scheme, so why change it? You change your prices when the current prices aren't working. The current prices aren't working right now.

Market research would help, but to be honest I think that's just an excuse the GMs throw around when they don't want to admit how restrictive the Japanese are. I mean this discussion about prices and free players has been going on for months, and people have made several good suggestions, and they've had plenty of time to act on or consider those suggestions, so what's up?


Gold Boxes was the step they were allowed to take, which was an improvement to many eyes. We can speculate all day about why things don't get cheaper.
- License issues
- Unwanted Alteil competition: there's a Taiwan version. I think they don't want to cause customers from TW to move to US b/c it is much cheaper.
- Revenue expectations
- Developers too busy with their own thing to work on US stuff


Soooo true, especially the marked parts. QFT
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