Change in game mechanics

User suggestions to improve the game

Change in game mechanics

Postby Demongod » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:42 pm

IMO, I think that Iczer attacking needs to cost 0 vs. an empty field. Think about it...what is possibly the biggest reason that files like Zu Rush, Primclone, and other such files win so much?

Simple: they hide behind a game mechanic that isn't working as well as it was intended to. In the tutorial, the little Lapierre Sensei says that the counter to not playing critters is to iczer your opponent.

Big and primclone files and other files that play one monster and then start spamming SP generators are a clear demonstration that this doesn't work anywhere *close* to as intended.

What Lapierre sensei has the newbies imagining:

They:
Sit back spamming SP gen grims

You:
Iczer them to death, kill whatever they manage to drop.


Reality:

They: Sit back spamming SP gen grims

You:
Know a big is coming, try to iczer them to death, fail miserably because they'll trade some of their 11-14 LP no sweat for your precious early-game SP.

They:
Laugh as you only finish half of their life with two small units and drop a GG monster on you and win easily.


I feel that a solution to this is quite simple: would it cost someone so much to make room in their file for a little bit of cannon fodder just so they can't be iczered? God forbid that playing a big file isn't as simple as "drop proxy, spam SP generators, drop BIG SCARY BEASTIE, win"

Think about it. One little level 1 critter would make iczering cost 1 for as many 9 critters for two whole turns, and then you can pay 1 SP after that for an extra turn extension.

Would it be too much to ask?
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby Otonashi » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:49 pm

I don't think you'll ever understand Big unit files until you try one yourself. But if you're that concerned about it, Set 6 gave you Heierrat Spy.
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Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby LoneKnight » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:10 pm

I thought about this too. But it'd upset the current game too much imo. Though, dealing considerable damage with other than cards getting sent to the cemetery feels a bit too costy... more special iczer units(like the spies), and at lower levels would be nice.
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Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby Romdeau » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:18 pm

Yes let's make big files more difficult to play because of a specific combo that does what the OP is complaining about (Primclone, anyone?).
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Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby ANIMEniac » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:39 pm

My Shade open would be 10x better being able to Iczer for free against someone skipping first turn!!!

The whole Iczer = 1SP is part of strategy. A direct hit means the opponent will suffer from being able to play more units. LP is mainly set up as buffers. It makes people think about to Iczer or save the SP. The files that need to build understand that concept, so it gives them time to set-up. If your opponent attacks your LP, it means they can't rush you as hard against your big unit.

What about when someone gets field wipe and can't revive and lose all field. My Sin Team deck can pull that off. So after you lose your units b/c you can't revive, I would be able to get free shots off at your LP? Won't even mention how crazy it will be with people wanting to abuse "Return" more.
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Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:54 pm

First turn: play level 1 unit,
Second turn: Sweeping TidalWave
Third turn: Return/Sweeping TidealWave

Whee, goodbye first 2 SS
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Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby Demongod » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:30 pm

ANIMEniac wrote:My Shade open would be 10x better being able to Iczer for free against someone skipping first turn!!!

The whole Iczer = 1SP is part of strategy. A direct hit means the opponent will suffer from being able to play more units. LP is mainly set up as buffers. It makes people think about to Iczer or save the SP. The files that need to build understand that concept, so it gives them time to set-up. If your opponent attacks your LP, it means they can't rush you as hard against your big unit.

What about when someone gets field wipe and can't revive and lose all field. My Sin Team deck can pull that off. So after you lose your units b/c you can't revive, I would be able to get free shots off at your LP? Won't even mention how crazy it will be with people wanting to abuse "Return" more.


But see here's the thing--the only counter to the big unit is to rush it with little ones--or play your own big.

Because unless you can rush it down, it'll singlehandedly kill you. And even if you do deal with it, the opponent gets a that SP back, sans the cost of revives. And guess where that goes? To get you another big.

The counter to a big is to rush your opponent down. However, an 11-14 LP file with 1 SP to iczer means that if you try rushing down, you're setting yourself up for a fieldwipe. (See: Allind, Zu, Zangy, Legrye vs. level 2s, Primclone, Star Dragon's counter skill, etc...)

So then what? One sin SS? Won't save you from all the bigs in the file.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:33 pm

In other words, its inevitable that you'd have to face down the big units eventually anyway.. so why not instead build up your field to be able to handle it?

That's been my strategy vs big and it seems to work for me. Its just one unit at the beginning anyway. And their open skill is just for one turn.. not hard to anticipate and work around.

Then again, i play tanking files, and those tend to laugh at big anyway
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Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby Demongod » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:44 pm

Open is one thing...Close is another.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
Demongod
 
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:53 pm

Re: Change in game mechanics

Postby luckysvn777 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:19 pm

Zu is even easier to deal with. Defense / Atk reduction = gg to the Zu player. Key to the Holy Realm, Mayleen, Angel Trumpet, Disarmament, Corruption, Heirrat Spy, etc. Not really that bad.

Or just large HP / high defense units. Zu is pathetically easy to deal with :/
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