More recycling options

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: More recycling options

Postby Peralisc2 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:31 pm

At the same time, point cards for 1* card recycles is just a bit ridiculous. You said you didn't want the card gap to increase, but at the same time, you'd want a payment of 600 gran to equal any 5* in the game? The paying players would have a field day. The free players would cry.

That would be a case of OP 5 stars. Something point cards and recycling options have 0 effect on.
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Re: More recycling options

Postby Demongod » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:32 pm

My issue is this...

The cards I need from the lottery right now?

2 balls of lame, 1 mercenary, 2 revolver bladesmen, possibly 3 heierrat spies. That's for merc/gowen rush. Maybe one PoM (recycled one before because I was simply revolted at the idea of playing undead...whoops)
For monsters, I need 2 more tree giants, 1 rhino, 3 monkeys, 3 forests.

For Falkow, 2 bogs, 3 elite fencers, 2 serpents, 3 frogs. Diondora as well for her SS.

And in the meantime, I have to keep recycling things like cure, gladiator, and other random nonsense that I know will never see the light of day in any decent file.

And the only way to control for this randomness? Pay about 2.5x more per card by getting them through packs.

Still not a good solution.

I've been playing since early December. It's early March. I've been here 3 months, and still haven't built my first completely new file yet. I'm close to a few new ones (monsters, merc nation, gowen tank file sans EX Dilate (dipstick...I'm jealous :(), and wizkingdom, but my only other file is a bad merc nation file.

Furthermore, any meta file requires key rares. Midlawt? Dalos and Belus. Wizkingdom? Distrier (possible to do without him I guess, but I don't even have fencers!)

And here's the thing--I can't spend point cards on anything but key rares. I have one bringer, but frankly, I know he'd be an amazing finisher so it's worth saving for him. I don't think 60 point cards for a five star is changing anytime soon.

So what do you propose, lucky?
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

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Re: More recycling options

Postby luckysvn777 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:35 pm

As I said, beginner packs should try to cover a lot of those key 1* cards. Maybe even 2* cards. Then, with gold packs, which will hopefully guarantee a 3* and 2 2* or so, that could be something worth trying to grind both 2-3* with then to get the rest you need.

Its not the best plan, but its certainly would help a lot I think.
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Re: More recycling options

Postby Multi » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:36 pm

I didn't write that "disclaimer" because I thought the suggestions were silly, I wrote it because it's obvious that these options would only give us players greater value while decreasing alteil's profit margins.

I was laughing at the always ludicrous extremes demongod takes. When I wrote point cards as an exchange, I certainly did not mean 1*'s as a 1:1 exchange rate, but something closer to 2*'s maybe. If you consider that lotto is too cheap and easy then the next obvious step are 2*'s, which, are even still for me a complete **** to collect. I still haven't completed the regular dolls or lycans or even gotten a set of mage knight. Generally you will get 2 2*'s from a pack and 3 1*'s if you don't hit any rares, so that means for 150 gran you could get 2 point cards and 15 gran on recycle. In this way, it'd cost you closer to 40-50 dollars for a 4* or 5*, yet this isn't an unreasonable suggestion since, at some point, you will have all the 1*'s and 2*'s in a set while still chasing after 3*'s and higher. This means at some point, 150 gran will net you ZERO usable cards and recycles for only 35 gran, and if this happens several times, you need to buy 5 packs before you can buy a 6th with your recycled gran, in the worst case scenario.

It just kinda goes to show you and opens your eyes to the big difference in rarity even between 1*'s and 2*'s, let alone higher rarities. On the other hand, it also goes to show that point card shop prices should be redone like I and many others suggested long ago, with 1*'s being 1 point card, 2*'s being 2, 3*'s being 6, 4*'s being 30, 5*'s being 60, according to the point card recycling price. With all these point card giveaways, such a system completely FAILS HARDCORE and can never be considered ever again, so we're only left with geta's suggestion of a scaled pricing system where if you have more of a card, the less it costs.

The fact of the matter is, this is how alteil makes its money and how it milks certain types of spenders. Realistically, because we cannot trade, it should make a system where we can "trade" with the company. It all depends on who's in charge however.

Take Dungeon Fighter Online. In korea, you are allowed to pick your avatar pieces and choose which stats come on them and you pay a premium for them. In Japan and also in the US, they've decided to go with a gacha system. This means you purchase coins to use in a lotto based avatar system (these avatars give random stats so it's not just for looks.) This pretty much is exactly how our gran system works, you pay for the currency to play a lotto to get random items. The difference is they allow trading for these items, and they also have high market worth depending on what pieces you get.

Here on alteil, your recycle rates are pretty abysmal. 1*'s as 5gran is actually quite fair because of the 10gran lotto, but 2*'s should definitely be closer to 30gran, and 3*'s something like 75gran because of the differences in rarity. 2*'s are not twice as difficult to obtain than 1*'s, so why are they only worth twice as much? 3*'s probably are only 2-3x harder to obtain than 2*'s so that much makes more sense. This would also mean that in the event that you buy a pack and you can't use ANY of the cards in it, instead of recycling the entire $1.50 away for $0.35, you would get $0.75 back, half of what your pack cost is, which is MUCH more logical, considering it's also how 10gran lotto works, you generally get a 1* back so you can recycle it for half the cost of the lotto. If this was implemented, then it wouldn't be nearly so bad when you get 7 of the same card in a box either. I think this is the least that could be done to show some respect and good will to players who buy gran.

Personally as it is now, there should be a failsafe in boxes where you cannot get more than 3 of the same card within that same box, since not only are you getting completely useless cards, but they're taking up spaces where other cards of 2* or higher should've been. Something similar was supposedly implemented in the beginner pack? So it's already out there, it's just not implemented. Instead we got suckered in by gold boxes, which weren't really cheaper and required you to buy 2 boxes at once almost.

Again, none of these suggestions will be considered whatsoever because it'll hurt the bottom line. But if it were like this, I guarantee you that at least I would be spending a lot more on this game. It's kinda curious how that works, you spend money to "save" money, because you're getting a better deal. Strange but true.
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Re: More recycling options

Postby luckysvn777 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:43 pm

I didn't write that "disclaimer" because I thought the suggestions were silly, I wrote it because it's obvious that these options would only give us players greater value while decreasing alteil's profit margins.

'
That's really all I meant by silly ^^

And I do agree with you. Alteil needs a lot more failsafes for all its card-acquiring methods (lotto, packs, boxes). Right now I want to spend for premium, but I can't think of one good thing to use the gran on.. as the odds of it being wasted are just too high. With failsafes in place to at least make spend gran get some benefit even with the worst luck, spending would be encouraged greatly..
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Re: More recycling options

Postby Multi » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:44 pm

Demongod wrote:
Furthermore, any meta file requires key rares. Midlawt? Dalos and Belus. Wizkingdom? Distrier (possible to do without him I guess, but I don't even have fencers!)

And here's the thing--I can't spend point cards on anything but key rares. I have one bringer, but frankly, I know he'd be an amazing finisher so it's worth saving for him. I don't think 60 point cards for a five star is changing anytime soon.

So what do you propose, lucky?


I've built a midlawt file that does fine with nothing above a 2*, same with bob000 who did Wizkingdom with pretty much only 2*'s, SK was only 2*'s, I had a successful mermaid hybrid file that also had nothing above 2* in it. Gowen can do file destruction with only 2*'s, merc nation with only 2*'s, lycan rush with only 2*'s.

that being said, I'm pretty much a free player too minus set 5, the only set I actually spent any amount of money on, so I actually have all the 1*'s and 2*'s from them, and I have almost every 1* in the game except set 6 just from MM gran lotto, though I've been playing daily MM for almost a year now.

2*'s are a pain pain pain in the butt to complete off MM gran, just gonna throw that out there.

If we didn't have these silly 5 point card giveaways all the time, 1*'s could've been 1pt card and 2*'s could've been 2pt cards and that would've been fine and dandy. People deserve their choice of a 1* after earning 2500FM, they deserve their choice of a 2* after 5000FM, they deserve their choice of a 3* after 15,000FM.
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Re: More recycling options

Postby garcia1000 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:02 pm

I think it would be great if there was a use for FM that was inverse to point cards. So it would be cheap to use FM to get 1* and 2* cards, but prohibitively expensive to use it to get 5* cards.
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Re: More recycling options

Postby Multi » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:30 pm

garcia1000 wrote:I think it would be great if there was a use for FM that was inverse to point cards. So it would be cheap to use FM to get 1* and 2* cards, but prohibitively expensive to use it to get 5* cards.


Multi wrote:It just kinda goes to show you and opens your eyes to the big difference in rarity even between 1*'s and 2*'s, let alone higher rarities. On the other hand, it also goes to show that point card shop prices should be redone like I and many others suggested long ago, with 1*'s being 1 point card, 2*'s being 2, 3*'s being 6, 4*'s being 30, 5*'s being 60, according to the point card recycling price. With all these point card giveaways, such a system completely FAILS HARDCORE and can never be considered ever again, so we're only left with geta's suggestion of a scaled pricing system where if you have more of a card, the less it costs.


Already stated in this thread.
Yeah, see, a pricing system like that would've made it fairly cheap to get 1* and 2* cards with FM, like, 20-40 battles? Where 5*'s would still remain 60 pointcards. Working as, point card recycles for 5 gran

1pt card = 5 gran according to this game so

1* = 5 gran = 1 pt card = 2,500 FM
2* = 10gran = 2 pt card = 5,000 FM
3* = 30gran = 6 pt card = 15,000 FM
4* = 150 gran = 30 pt card = 75,000FM
5* = 300 gran = 60 pt card = 150,000FM

(I assume demongod has never spent FM and he's at like what, level 50-60? around 40-50k FM? I think by level 50-60 you're entitled to your choice of at least a couple 3*'s through your earnings. It's remarkable how pathetic your earnings from a match are worth, literally worth less than 10 cents.)

A very logical progression (new accounts could use that random 1 pt card they get to complete a common), but completely impossible to use FOREVER because of the poor decision to give away 5pt cards for EVERYTHING a few months ago. It's pretty amazing that they decided on something so completely reckless and game killing (they took out the potential of letting people EARN their point cards through FM which would've encouraged either more matches or more MM.) yet it takes 4 months to bring out another reinforcement pack :V
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Re: More recycling options

Postby Demongod » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:31 pm

50-60?

45k FM.

LEVEL 76, DIPSTICK.

And I think the 1/2/6/30/60 would work even with the 5 point card events.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: More recycling options

Postby Peralisc2 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:36 pm

Are the GMs considering any of these?
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