No trading/buying/selling cards?

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: No trading/buying/selling cards?

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:45 pm

Actually you raise a valid point there. Not too much meta yet around 3 stars... its still a potential issue though. Of course, if the GM's want to endorse that, your recycle idea sounds nice. May as make it legal rather than work around the system.
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Re: No trading/buying/selling cards?

Postby odanobunaga » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:06 pm

gahhh! The game disconnected when I was getting a prize card... I'm pissed now...
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Re: No trading/buying/selling cards?

Postby Logress » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:19 pm

The big advantage trading has over everything else we've discussed is that everyone already understands it, and it's been proven to work and be ultimately accepted by the users and profitable to the company. There are two big disadvantages, one is that the game isn't designed for it, and two is the legal implications.

When I'm talking about game design, I'm talking about overall. As people have mentioned, things like give out free cards and free gran would have to be carefully monitored and pre-calculated. Also, the game balance. Now, it's been mentioned that the game balance might not be "good enough" for trading. I'd say that it's more like that game balance would have to be very different in a trading environment. Right now, two environments are taken into consideration when cards are balanced. The first is the all-cards environment, which approximates the highest level of play, and the second is the majority-game environment, which takes into account the number of each card likely to be in circulation and how you get them. For example, many have noticed there are 1 Star "foundation" cards, meaning cards that can be the foundation of a variety of decks, that are not in the Starters. Guardian, for example. This was done on purpose, so that a free player has an obtainable goal that can make a big difference in what he's capable of. And there are lots of other types of cards out there that just wouldn't make sense in a trading system. So, every card would have to be re-blanced with the new system in mind. Also, the number of each rarity, the number of cards in each set, these were all chosen based on the type of system we have. Perhaps the biggest issue would be deck size, which is significantly smaller than in any trading-based game I've ever played. The number of cards needed to build each deck being lower might also have an effect on the stability of the system. I've only been thinking about it a short time and I've already got a list of concerns that would have to be addressed by someone much smarter than myself. I have worked for Upper Deck in the past, and I know when they're figuring out number of cards in a set, number of each rarity, print runs, they put a literal army of mathematicians, statisticians and game theorists on it.

The other issue is legal. Again, I'm no expert but when this whole thing started I had a short meeting with an expert on online law, and basically New York City is a pretty challenging place to run a virtual economy. When users can engage in transactions of their own using virtual goods as if they had real world value, things get heated up. And I'm not just talking about someone accusing someone else of stealing or tricking them into trading away a good card. I'm talking about 2 guys who go watch a duel using the duel spectating feature, each one picks a favorite and throws a 3star up on the trading window. The one who's pick wins takes them both. That's gambling, effectively on our property with tools we've created, and very illegal here.
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Re: No trading/buying/selling cards?

Postby Phenoca » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:14 pm

Good post, covering some key arguments, right up to the gambling.
I don't see a difference between lotto and lotto649. Lotto649 you get a piece of paper that you can write on and recycle. Get a fourth copy of any card, and there's not much you can do. It would be nice if I could just give-away my fourth-copies.
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Re: No trading/buying/selling cards?

Postby DDrgn » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:37 pm

Phenoca wrote:It would be nice if I could just give-away my fourth-copies.


Maybe they could create a "junk pile" of cards people have recycled? And then people could grab...err, have a random chance of getting a card from the pile once a day, similar to the lotto? That way someone(eventually/probably) gets your fourth copy you no longer want. :D

I guess it's like a roundabout way of trading. xD
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Re: No trading/buying/selling cards?

Postby odanobunaga » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:08 pm

DDrgn wrote:
Phenoca wrote:It would be nice if I could just give-away my fourth-copies.


Maybe they could create a "junk pile" of cards people have recycled? And then people could grab...err, have a random chance of getting a card from the pile once a day, similar to the lotto? That way someone(eventually/probably) gets your fourth copy you no longer want. :D

I guess it's like a roundabout way of trading. xD

Isn't that the same as lotto?
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Re: No trading/buying/selling cards?

Postby Peralisc2 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:53 pm

No, it's not like lotto, it's even worse. Chances to get a 1 star there will be much higher, since people will mostly keep the rares. :/
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Alteil is pretty much well balanced. Sometimes you loose and sometimes the enemy wins.
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Trading System

Postby eextreme » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:49 pm

I did look through this forum and found some thread that is similar to this, but still makes me wonder why a card trading system was not implemented in the game. There has been talks about the lack of people playing this game, thus the trade system would not be useful or something like that. Also the most people I've seen online up to now is usually less than 100. That also makes me wonder why very few people play this game (other than the long learning curve). Overall, the trading system would benefit some people if they know exactly what cards to trade for. (other than just looking at it rarity). Another possible problem with the trading system would be that people might be able to trade for some of the rarest cards in the game and make a really powerful deck. (I looked at some 3-rare cards and found some of them to be overpowered) Nonetheless, a trade system would allow people to make gran/fm off of trading rate cards, more than what one would get through the recycle.

Thus the final question is, is it a good idea to implement a trading system, why or why not. I m in favor of a trading system regardless of its possible problems.
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Re: Trading System

Postby Romdeau » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:55 pm

I don't even know why you bothered posting if you truly did your homework, this issue has been covered dozens of times and time over time the conclusion is that trading will never come to Alteil. It doesn't matter who's a fan or not really, it's just not going to happen. It betrays one of the core values this game was founded on, which is luck. I'm not a fan of the trading system, the current style sort of forces one to work with what one is dealt-kinda like life yes? Anyhow I'm not going to rant on this issue anymore. Feel free to openly discuss this for the billionth time..
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Re: Trading System

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:26 pm

Biggest problem: Legal hassles. GM's have gone into detail about that many times.

It won't happen.
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