Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

[Mirth]

Focus: Improving the Game We've grown to love....

Please list your Problems/Solutions/Ideas to Make Alteil an even more incredible game!

Problems + Solutions

I. Problems I’ve encountered playing Alteil:

A. Cost - 2100 Gran for a box. $50 for 6000 Gran. So if you really want 3 of that four or five star card… that’s 3 x 2100 Gran = 6300 Gran for 3 “chances” at getting that card.

After spending nearly $500 I still am still missing 3 of specific cards I want (or only have one of a great card I'd love to put into my deck... but usually just 1 a deck does not make). Owch. Consideration: For the same price I could buy various online game collector’s editions and pay for 2-3 years of playtime. Or buy 8-10+ boxes of various card games... I love Alteil... but don't want to find myself in money-trouble.

B. Losing Interest: I’ve spoken with several players who are losing interest at level 10 (once they leave the 1-9 arena) if they don’t put in lots of $. It seems to have become more prevalent with the new card set – allowing the new cards (with lots of “synergy” with current cards) to crush the starter decks.

C. Low player counts. Even with the new series and PAX… I still have to see the level 1-9 area reach above 40-50 and the 10+ area to reach above 35+

D. Low Interaction: Maybe 1 out of 10 battles the conversation ends up being more than 2-3 lines.

A, B, C & D all tie directly into each other.

Goals: Increase the value of your cards. Increase Interest. Increase Player Count. Increase Interaction. (Increasing ANY of these will have an effect on the others!)

Possible Solutions:

1. Limited Trading 2. Spreading the Word 3. Guild Trading 4. Auto-Rare counter. 5. More More More Tournaments

1. Limited Trading – the key word being “Limited”. Goal: Increase Interaction.

-Only allow trading at level 10 and above. Learning + Winning in the Level 1-9 arena is addictive. Give those with the starter decks another reason to begin investing.

-Allow a limited amount of trades per day. Start with 3 and see how that goes.

-Allow trades only up/down 2 star levels – based on recycling level. For example… one 5 star = two 4 stars OR ten 3 stars. This would mean that people who buy their first box may get (GASP) NINE more cards (good 3 stars even!) for just their 5 star.

-Starter Cards (yellow-green shield) and Special Set Cards (For example EX – Angels) may NOT be traded. This is because they are not “randomly” provided.

-Let people list what they want for their cards. Make it as open as possible to help prevent scamming.

-Give trading a chance. Track it for a month. Let people know that if they find bugs/abuses… to let the staff know and be rewarded. Review it with players after a month to figure out whether to continue/change/scrap it.

2. Spreading the word – Pulling in friends. Goal: Increase player count. Increase Interest.

-Allow referrals. Provide four booster packs (two for referrer and two for referee) when the referral meets the following guidelines: Account active 1 month + Account makes it to level 10 + Different email address (baseline for all games) + New account makes at least 1 payment (All to help avoid Misuse). Why four packs? It’s a good reward for helping a friend learn and stay with the game. Plus the referee (with their 1st payment) will probably find themselves with at least 3 of some 1 star and 2 star cards… which will keep them trying out new decks and playing…

3. Guild Trading. Goal: Increase interaction.

-Allow “Bonus” trades that are allowed ONLY between fellow members of a guild. For starters… say 2 bonus trades per day. It makes being in a guild with good people that much more worthwhile.

-To prevent misuse (jumping from guild to guild)… if you leave a guild you are marked “guild-less” for 2 weeks and unable to join another guild. This would also make guild recruiting that much more valuable.

4. Auto-Rare Counter. Goal: Helping you get the cards you need.

-This idea could work without trading… (and maybe with)

Here’s how it works: If you have three of a 4-star or 5-star card… you will NOT get that card in NEW boxes/packs that you purchase.

That means that if you buy twenty-four boxes of Set 1 (eight five star cards x three = twenty-four cards total) … you are guaranteed to get a complete set (3) of each 5 star.

For example: 24 times 2100 Gran = 50400 Gran divided by 12000 Gran per $100 = $420 Dollars… and that’s just for Set #1. If someone decides to spend $420 dollars on Alteil, For what reason shouldn’t they have a complete set (3) of each of each 5 star of Set #1? Plus, $420 is only if they buy in lots of $50 (6000 Gran) or $100 (12000 Gran) AND if they put it all into boxes. It may be quite a bit more money if they bought lower Gran amounts and/or by the pack/lottery.

And Set #2 adds another eight 5-star cards…

If people are willing to invest $420 dollars… Do you see them leaving the game very quickly? (Even half that amount $210 is quite a bit in today’s economy!)

Once people get the complete set, they would start getting a fourth copy… which would be 300 Gran if they recycled… However recycling for that reason I don’t think would be worth the 2100 Gran initial investment (Someone want to try to calculate it out?)

As for the lottery... keep it random - because it is random!

5. More Tournaments with Larger payouts & Special Avatar items. Increase interest.

-Have more tournaments with larger payouts. It helps to break up the arena fighting.

-Give all those who enter tournaments special avatar items. For example: Perhaps a “tournament counter” that could be their background upper left hand corner? (If you have entered 2 tournaments so far – a highlighted Number 2 – As it increases (like # of consecutive wins) it would change into silver… gold… etc…)

-Have tournament records be a part of Izcer profiles.

-Give those who win/place in tournaments special Unique (to that tournament ONLY) cool-looking avatar items & backgrounds. Increase interest by having something to show off.

**Whew… initial brain-download completed.**

Once again… please list your ideas, thoughts, comments, suggestions, (even WTH?). Thanks for reading and the late-night battles!

Sincerely addicted,
Mirth

[LunarShard]

Great post Mirth - a lot of strong ideas that should help liven up the game. I especially like the restrictions and requirements you put on trading, as hopefully it will prevent abuse.

And the guild feature needs to be fleshed out some more, as I really don't know what purpose it serves besides the weekly rankings.

Let's keep in mind that the game is really only ~2 months old, and as this is game is working on getting itself established like the Japanese counterpart, there's still a lot of growth to be had.

But of course, sooner = better.

[Phades]

However, if someone is forced to play up to level 10 on each account first before they can trade... and is limited on trades... etc... when they pour money into the multiple accounts and start trading the administrators of Alteil will probably be looking quite closely at a steady set of trades from a single IP address...

You can change your IP address with the proper knowledge. Also, you can login from multiple locations, due to the game not being tied down installation or awkward account IDs (yes i am looking at you SE ).

[kitsunekit]

Minor Quibble: Make BGM and SE on/off permanent. Its just annoying having to maximize the window, click outside the game, hit "scroll down", and click on "Turn BGM off", "Turn SE off" every time I load alteil or MM.

[Mirth]

Ahh... good point Phades.

Thanks for the thumbs-up Lunarshard!

One of my big concerns is that Alteil will end up one of those games where people say:
"It was an amazing game... BUT Too hard to afford."

For example: The Expansion was kind of like a double-edged sword. Great new cards.... BUT

they also allowed me (and I'm guessing others) to have a Much larger edge on people with starter decks only... some of whom I'm never seen play again once they hit the level 10 arena.

Quotes from some recent battles vs. mostly starter decks: "No new cards... so I die" "I used to win before the expansion came out" "I'm ready to quit"

Word of Mouth is VERY powerful... Hearing those made me concerned. What do you think they are telling their friends about the game?

-Cost-wise of my additional Dragon Expansion cards? About $250. More than x2 my car insurance... about $150 less than my health insurance.

The cards I still crave from both Sets would probably put me back another $400 or so (If I'm lucky enough to pull them).

I think it shows how superb the core game is that people are willing to pay $$$$ to play... unfortunately the cost really limits the player base.

And without a "critical mass"... Poof. (Well.. either that or the same 30-40 folk playing against each other for years...)

Sincerely thinking,
Mirth
~
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!

[Xovian]

If trading were to ever be an option, the most likely way it would be is a one for one basis.
You want a certain 5 star, you better have a 5 star to trade, and hope it is something someone plans to use. The same can be said for any rarity. 4 star for 4 star, ect..

However, as Rom said the likely hood of even this marginal amount of trading is not likely and in fact is most likely nothing more then a dream.
While I'd be the first to agree that a trading option would be nice (and this is from someone who has spent a good deal of $) I don't think it will be happening given how the game is operated.

I will however agree the tournament scene could use more to help boost not only sales but also recognition for those that do well in them. I think that would give quite a few people incentive to join them, including those that are not still out to collect certain cards.

The only other suggestion I have made, and i have mentioned it to all the GM's before, is how the random script is called.

I think it is safe to say most people do not like winning or loosing because of sheer luck, it defeats the entire purpose of having "strategy" in the game. As to what specific random call do i refer to? I'm talking about the random call based on AGI. In my opinion it should be called once a turn (or even at the start of the game) then alternate based on AGI rating from there. It's annoying to watch same AGI creatures and then you watch one player go first and proceed to decimate the opponents field (because several like AGI calls had them go first), with out ever getting a chance to fight back. When 4 creatures of the same AGI go almost in order and on one side only, that is no longer a game, it's a slaughter. This proves even doubly true for same sphere vs same sphere since many units are often found with the same AGI (they don't even have to be the same units) in many of the files under that sphere, thus you see even more same AGI units. How many low AGI units does Refess have? The majority. How bout lawtia, ever counted how many have 3AGI? It's the same for every sphere. Yes there are some that have different amounts, but every sphere has creatures that have the standard AGI rating for that sphere. So it can and does create games that are won on nothing more then who got the "random" that turn.

As an example of how bad the current random script can run, I have had several games (many were test games) vs Romdeau, and I can't count the number of time we both had haste soldiers out, and he killed all three of mine, while mine killed none of his that it isn't even funny. While it might be highly amusing, and even a little funny when it's not happening to you, in Ranking areas, this simply is not fair, nor is it "right". It is the one thing I really dislike about the game, they have made so much in the game important like, where a card is in filed position, how triggering certain SS can require both skill and timing, to let something like this be a detriment to the game. The game will always have random, as we cant choose who our units hit (outside pinpoint type abilities) so there is more then enough random in that alone.

I think a change on this, would also add even more strategy, and from what I see, its one of the hallmarks Alteil is founded on.

Just my two cents as far as problems/solutions I'd like to see.

[Xovian]

I really hope the american company can convince the japanese devs to at least think about a trade/sell option for the international version: there are really some very good suggestions in the forum, but it seems like the us team just ignore them and don't even wanna present them to the japanese devs... Until then I'm out of the game. I'm absolutely sure that alteil will be really successful with a trade/sell system, but right now it's only a niche game for ppl who wants to waste time and money...

I will say this, and this is because I often talk with the GM's (yes they do enter the chat rooms fairly often!), and that is you are way off the mark here.

The US team has done much to change the game and make it better, but everything has to be negotiated and brought up to the Japanese before any changes can occur. The current US staff often fights tooth and toe nail to get what changes or errata that they have. Care to take a guess how long large changes take?

If there's one thing i can say about the game for the US release, is that the team does take the thoughts of the players into consideration, and they do try to present many of the ideas to the Japanese, however the amount of work (a lot of paper work) to get such changes you would likely be very surprised at, and maybe even flat out shocked. This is a licensed product from a Japanese company, and like Anime or other Japanese products that become licensed in the US or abroad, there are channels that have to be gone through, and all of them take a great deal of time.

-Xovian

[Xovian]

As for the random, I feel it makes the game more interesting. CCGs random factor goes int he form of card draw. Order of attacks are based on turn order. In Alteil, the field is even, everyone has their "fair" shot at the enemy. Then there's the anticipation of the "attack". Who will go first? Who hits who? The set-up and the strategies, mixed in with the gamble plays. This is what I find most unpredictable and exciting about Alteil. I can plan for the best, but the outcome of the battle will can be unpredictable.

Some what goes against the term of "strategy" doesn't it?
While I'm sure it has happened, I don't think we'll be seeing NFL coaches flipping a coin to see what play they are gonna use.
I also don't see military Generals flipping a coin to decide there strategies for real world combat or exercises either.
Both the above require strategy as well as execution. Alteil, is said to be a strategy game, and if random is over used, then it is no longer about strategy and becomes based on luck.

Don't get me wrong, some of the random element is needed.
Like who attacks what, however I believe the when should be adjusted. If nothing else a streak breaker code would ensure one sided slaughters don't occur as frequently as they do. (Value and range would be highly debatable.) Also there are other elements to the random besides those two things (random row dmg, random SS, random hits, ect), so it isn't like random would be removed, that element is still there. The stats for the cards themselves can take on even more meaning then they currently do. I don't think anyone would argue that, that is a bad thing. The main reason I say it should be changed, is because a string of bad luck should not become a means to win or loose a game that is supposed to be fun, competitive and about strategy.

[ANIMEniac]

The strategy comes from what cards you play, how you set up, how you time and how you time your souls. A huge factor of the strategy is factoring chances if X factor succeed or fail.

Let's face it, the battle field is suppose to be unpredictable. If not, it would be just like a chess match, every move is known and calculated before hand. It will just come down to who can trap who first or the one able to read into the battle further. If anyone is familiar with go, its a game that requires you to look and vision the board many moves ahead of the game.

Taking your examples:
In football, the team is the card file, pre-organized. The plays become the strategies to fight with, that would be how we play our cards. Each play has positions and routes for each player. This relates to position of cards and their stats. Offense has their plays, Def has theirs. After that, every has to do their own thing, separately. After the play has started, anything can happen. Def could get through linemen and put pressure on QB. A receiver may outrun the coverage or end up double teamed.

Let's take a look at RTS. I form battallions to send out in formation. However each unit is autonomous. Some may get double teamed in the battle, some may never get hurt. If I was to randomly send out 2 battalions against one another, the outcome will rarely end up the same. That is kind of what Alteil is trying to simulate.

Last thing is, if they tried to fix it so it is more "equal and balanced", then it may become predictable. If 2 5 AGI units went against one another. One hits first, then next turn the other has to hit to be "fair" right? Then that becomes more predictable and changes the nature of the battle in the game.

I'm not saying it would be bad able to see a flow chart on "Speed" like in FF tactics. Or how interesting it would be to plan you attacks accordingly to order. But then again, that would be a different game. Like comparing how mana works in Magic compared to Ateil.

[Xovian]

Let's take a look at RTS. I form battallions to send out in formation. However each unit is autonomous. Some may get double teamed in the battle, some may never get hurt. If I was to randomly send out 2 battalions against one another, the outcome will rarely end up the same. That is kind of what Alteil is trying to simulate.

Which is already simulated by what they attack. It would still be random.

Last thing is, if they tried to fix it so it is more "equal and balanced", then it may become predictable. If 2 5 AGI units went against one another. One hits first, then next turn the other has to hit to be "fair" right? Then that becomes more predictable and changes the nature of the battle in the game.

Oh, so you mean what i said is true, there might actually be more "strategy" and less luck.
Even though the random would still be used in what they hit. So they may not even hit the same units again, and this would be constant as the field constantly changes. But it would stop unfair streaks which are not good for a game that is supposed to be competitive.

I really fail to see what your trying to argue about here.

Agree or don't it really doesn't matter.
Some will like the idea, some wont.
I put it out there from my perspective, and i can say as a fact, that I've had a lot more bad luck then good luck.
Will the idea ever see the light of day?
Your guess is as good as anyones.