Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby DWildstar » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:33 am

zwanglos wrote:- Do away with this obnoxious "you can't see anyone in the lobby, and you can't choose who you fight, ever" completely and give us the options of who to fight, host games, etc.

Problem with this is the high RP players would probably never get a duel if people could choose to not fight them. The other issue is if you can choose who you play that leads to people purposefully playing themselves or friends to increase exp and such. The closest thing to what you've suggested that has actually been implemented in Alteil JP is an RP based arena. Alteil JP has an arena that is 1550 RP and below only.

The other thing is that even though there are certain file types that are very strong, it doesn't mean that the other file absolutely has to be of a certain caliber to beat it. I've been playing in Folrart for a very long time and sometimes I've had a file that worked great for a while, but then I'm up against a new player who plays more aggressively than veteran players (one thing I think new players do more often is iczer attack the first soul skills when they can, whereas veteran players tend to rest) and then all of a sudden my good Folrart file has fallen apart.
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby RivalIczer » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:31 am

Luckysvn777 wrote:Besides, if I was the newbie, I'd be offended even by winning only because of a handicap. Ruins the nature of the game.


But you're not offended by winning only because you have access to a lot more (and vastly more powerful) cards.
Yet, that's a bigger handicap in your favor than the newbie would get in Pancake's suggestion.

Anyone else smelling some hypocrisy in the air?


One improvement that would work wonders for new players would be a way to get triples of a card:
Say you had a "triple lottery": get 3 random identical cards for 40 (or more) Gran.

In the long run, that lottery isn't as efficient as the normal lottery, but in the short run, the newbie gets to actually modify his deck.

Reason behind this: level-up cards and the lottery are nice, but they rarely give triples (or even doubles) of a card, and so many units don't work as singles (or don't work nearly as well) that the newbie rarely gets a chance to incorporate his acquisitions into his File, and he steps into Folrart with something that still greatly ressembles the starter.

Logress: it's not for everyone's taste.
When trying to explain it was a meta-joke, I got told, and I quote: "i kno ur jok but u shouldnt put it in ur nem" by an opponent :P.
Last edited by RivalIczer on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby Logress » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:35 am

Btw, RivialIczer, I never fail to find your login name hilarious when I'm writing skill text.
"Scissors are overpowered. Rock is fine." -Paper
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:48 am

One improvement that would work wonders for new players would be a way to get triples of a card:
Say you had a "triple lottery": get 3 random identical cards for 40 (or more) Gran.

In the long run, that lottery isn't as efficient as the normal lottery, but in the short run, the newbie gets to actually modify his deck.

Reason behind this: level-up cards and the lottery are nice, but they rarely give triples (or even doubles) of a card, and so many units don't work as singles (or don't work nearly as well) that the newbie rarely gets a chance to incorporate his acquisitions into his File, and he steps into Folrart with something that still greatly ressembles the starter.


This, this, this, this, this. Forget about increasing the rates or lowering prices. This is the thing we need to do with the game. I'm not sure if this is the way I would go about it, but we need some way to get triples of cards easier, especially rare cards.

This idea would work.

Another idea is implementing some sort of system to "duplicate" a card of your choice. Maybe something that gives you a second card of your choice for a certain amount of gran/FM. And half that price to get a third copy. I'm not setting a price, because it should be different for different rarities

Note: people still need to spend and endure the random to get those first copies. However, they can then divert their attention to auto-getting these second and third copies.


But you're not offended by winning only because you have access to a lot more (and vastly more powerful) cards.
Yet, that's a bigger handicap in your favor than the newbie would get in Pancake's suggestion.

Anyone else smelling some hypocrisy in the air?


Not at all. Believe it or not, I was new too at one point, and being able to eventually figure out a good strategy and challenge and beat some of the top players was certainly a very satisfying experience. Would have been the complete opposite if I had won because of a handicap.

Also, back in set 3, my top file was essentially a mod-Gowen starter, so its not necessarily true that you need those super rare cards to beat "vets" or be on the same level as them.

Finally, the honest truth is that new players don't lose because of lack of cards as much as they lose from lack of experience. The game is all about prediction and strategy. A perfectly played starter (especially lawt-gowen) can be quite scary.

Plus, its not like I haven't earned those cards as well. I didn't just press a handicap button to give me all of them.
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby RivalIczer » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:08 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:Finally, the honest truth is that new players don't lose because of lack of cards as much as they lose from lack of experience.


That's a load of bull, and I think you know it.
No amount of "experience" is going to make Folrart Paladin, Folrart Dual Wielder and Blessed Acolyte stand up to Knight of the 1/2/3/4/0 Shrines.
The Shrine knights will tear up your guys before they can act. Get some DEF to survive the onslaught? Shrine Zero will slaughter you. Romdeau can testify, I tried all I could against him, even a couple of single-copies cards that didn't get to do much, but in the end, there was no beating those Shrine Knights (especially Knight of Shrine Zero).
Fun fact: I don't even have Instant Revive, so I use Holy Light as a ghetto-revive for those single-copies :P.

No amount of "experience" will provide you 3 SP and a unit in the same turn.

No amount of "experience" will make your Combat Monk, Kurina and Samurai Girl beat 4 Lycans with 5 consecutive turns of Night.

No amount of "experience" can save you from Primclone, either.

You can counter all of the above, but when your selection of cards is limited to the starter and a few single-copies, you just don't have the counters.
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:13 pm

Your confusing "more cards" with "poor matchup"
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby RivalIczer » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:03 pm

You're*

Change the starters around in those examples, and the results wil the the same.
But yeah, keep pretending you're not winning because of better cards.
The reason that newbie Refess player uses Blessed Acolyte instead of Shrine (0/1/2/3/4) Knights is because he didn't think of the combo, not because he doesn't have those cards! Of course! Such an innovative tactic, not everyone can think of it.*

*PS: this is an example, hopefully this PS will force you to answer the point instead of nitpicking the example.
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby luckysvn777 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:34 pm

Shrine is practically the fastest rush in the game. Starters are rush files. Of course they will have a bit of a disadvantage. Shrine Knights are weaker vs big files. Its called balance. So, way to pick an example extremely skewed to your viewpoint and not representative of the overall point. Thanks for pointing that out.

Although Gowen + Ball of Flame (no excuse, reinforcement packs), played well, can hold its own. So can a competent Witch open. Both are files I have lost to with Shrine Knights.

Yes, I have the Shrine Knights. Yes, they tend to be better than the starters. Does a complete lack of experience make the win guaranteed? Yes, because with experience, it can be threatened for sure.

So you can keep blaming losses on a lack of cards and not try to make the best of it. Because believe me, that's the attitude that's the difference between who stays and does well and who gives up.


To stress it, the following paragraph is most important:

People tend to underestimate the impact of experience in the game. The game is all about predicting and staying one step ahead of your opponent. If you can predict what they are going to play, you can adjust your strategy to neuter it and gain an advantage. In any file I play, in every turn, I always list in my head the worst possible cards the enemy iczer can play with what he has so far and how likely they are to be played, come up with a strategy to help recover from those possibilities, and adjust my play accordingly. Same goes with SS. Knowing what's possible and what to do to stop it is how the game works. Yes, having more cards to increase the amount of strategy you can do is an advantage. Having a powerful starting plan (your file) to start the game with is an advantage. But once the game starts, its ultimately decided through who can predict and counter who.


And actually, fun fact: Last set I played Starmander towards the end. One of the files I actually really ended up fearing the most: Mod Lawt Starter. Yes, one of the files I wanted to face the least was a STARTER. Luckily, most of the ones i faced didn't have the EXPERIENCE to win. Those that did gave me a good chunk of the losses on that file. So there's my example to prove my point.


In your favor, I will say one thing though. The starters are now two sets outdated. They need to be updated. I can agree on that.
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby Peralisc2 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:21 pm

Starter decks and moded starter decks each of them can counter a variety of decks. It's all about either outplaying the counter decks or dodging them.

If you have a larger card pool it's easier to get the right cards to buff your deck so that you have a chance (from bad to very good) to outplay the counters.


As for starter decks being outdated, i wanted to help out giving new starter and deck ideas, by organizing a tournament where you should pick two copies of a 3 star of your choice and whatever other amount of 1-2 star rarities the starters have. Problem is i don't know when i will have time again to organize a tourney. Hopefully someone else will show up to do that.
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Re: Improving the Game: Listing your ideas/solutions

Postby ANIMEniac » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:41 pm

Sure, having more cards gives you better options, but I can attest that the big factor is experience and well planned SS with timing.

In many cases, i will see the typical starter decks, like Gowen rush. From the more experienced type of players, I can usually outplay them b/c i know what to expect and how they time things.
But the thing that will decide games is being unpredictable and knowing your timing well. I've lost to starters b/c they know how to set up their SS and they will let units die at the right moment (even when not all 3 copies are gone).

I personally have thrown high RP players off and won some matches with a modded Set 1 Gowen, yes Set 1!!

The losses usually step from match ups. There are just some decks that starters can't handle, or just don't have the cards to do it. Second is experience. If you understand how decks play and how people set up SS, then you can attempt to outplay their moves.

Most of the starters I play against are mainly hoping to go toe-to-toe with their units. Slug fest don't get very far. It's the surprise disruptions (grims, SS, abilities) that will throw the opponent off that get's you the lead.
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