Max HP Hate and Counter Skills

[Shrimpyrice]

Hi all,

Just a little confused on an issue here and want to make sure it's working as intended. Let's say I play Star Dragon and my opponent plays Francis. Francis attacks but doesn't trigger Star Dragon's counter skill because it simply reduces Max Hp instead of doing damage. Is this the intended effect? Is max hp hate supposed to avoid counter skills? At least in the case of Francis, it works as an actual attack (as in executing the attack action), but doesn't seem to trigger a counter skill. I would argue that any reduction of the current HP should trigger a counter skill, as opposed to a reduction in max hp that doesn't reach the current hp threshold, but that's just me.

[GOSCAR]

Yes works that way. Counter only go off when damage is done. Reducing Max Hp does not count as dealing damage.

[Shrimpyrice]

Well, at least I know it's not just a bug I suppose. I still feel it makes more sense to have counter skills triggered by any reduction in current HP, especially if it is functioning just like an attack.

[Shirozaki]

It doesn't actually reduce your HP, if your HP is already below the post-MAX HP attack, so it doesn't ALWAYS count as a HP reduction.

[Shrimpyrice]

Right, but even when it does reduce your current hp below its normal level, it doesn't trigger a counter skill. I'm not opposed to the idea of a counter skill not triggering when max hp doesn't fall below current hp. For example, I'm okay with my 80/120 star dragon being reduced to 80/80 without triggering a counter skill. Makes sense as no real damage was done (ignoring prevention of future standby to regain that health). That seems fair to me. However, the current mechanics seem to be that counter skills aren't triggered even when current hp is reduced due to max hp reducing skills. That doesn't seem particularly fair to me. There are already plenty of ways of climbing around walls in the game, and having one that functions similar to basic attack seems a bit silly.

[Vascha]

its magic.
its special.

and its about as fair as playing a salamander on your own stardragon.

[Shrimpyrice]

Haha, I wish everything could be explained away with the answer "A wizard did it." I don't see the salamander analogy working here. That is actually working within the existing game mechanics. Guy takes damage, counter skill triggers. Sure, it may feel cheap, but it still is working within the current system. In this case, current hp is being reduced, but without triggering a counter skill. This makes absolutely no sense to me other than the fact that it's "magic" and somehow mystically evades the counter system. I'd be much more comfortable knowing that this is some quirk of programming rather than this being a function of how Alteil wants to run its counter system.

[Romdeau]

Damage is not being dealt, that's the key mechanic that's missing in max hp reduction. Bloody hell you wanna make star dragon and guardian OP or some ****? Counter skills should have a weakness.

[Seizan]

They should, but why in form of max hp reduction? It already bypasses defence, counters both undeads and lycantrophes and makes healing even more useless. And how is that making Guardian OP? Even if Francis would trigger counter with her attack, it still reduces max hp so much that one-shotting that Guardian is almost guaranteed.

[LoneKnight]

Francis has 40 attack. She needs to hit her twice. That's regardless of how much current HP guardian has. Just saying. Unless you go around playing with Francis that has a Mulna buff or a 30/30 on her or something.

Oh wait, you mean that the next attack will one shot her. Right. I guess that could be true.