What is going on?

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Re: What is going on?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:38 pm

I am philosophically against pretty much every "gold pack" that has ever been offered. Only worth it if the person plans to spend $$ in the hundreds.
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Re: What is going on?

Postby AngelicDeath » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:58 pm

Curious now though don't have the time nor willing to invest the money. Gold packs vs gold boxes? I wonder which would provide the better cost alternative? Statistics on gold boxes i have for the most part but stats on the new priced gold packs (aside from Ropey's experience) is lacking.

Nonetheless, unless costs come down considerably I am opposed to the purchase of gold packs, goldboxes, lotto, ex etc etc.

Get the game in line with other CCG's with respect to cost. Even at 5 usd per 5 star selected you are pushing the limit. That would be my max purchase pt at this stage.

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Re: What is going on?

Postby Ropey » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:30 am

AngelicDeath wrote:
Really what needs to be accomplished is some set amount of money per user (on average) alteil wants/needs to make). There are probably tiers of spenders. The key is managing each tier to maximize profits - in business terms. if you **** the lower end- the free players they depart and the spenders have only a handful of other spenders to play against. This would be one end of the spectrum. Give everything away for free and ypu get a ton of players and the game loses money and closes- that would be the other end o f said spectrum.

AD


I think this is paramount to balancing the shop, but how do you do it without segregating or alienating the tiers? You could have an exclusive shop for premium players giving better rates and even pinpointing cards. I know in my own case I'm just not going to profit from most of the deals aimed at lower tier spenders. This would not be the case in reverse. The lower spenders would gain to much from any offers aimed at higher tiers.

We are all saying how we refuse to spend any more, but I bet when a new set is released we will all be itching to spend. In this game you have to keep up.

Please understand that I at least am willing to open my wallet and sink money into a game I dearly love, but I'm not going to spend as I did when I first started this game. I want to complete my collection or at least obtain the cards I want in a way that I feel is financially reasonable, and is not so haphazard as the shop is set out at the moment or has been in the past.

As for pricing I look at it like this. I just paid £42 for Dishonoured on the 360. I got the special edition which included a set of tarot cards! I completed it in about a week, but much has been said about the replay value of this game. While this is true to a certain extent I don't think it's as great as say Skyrim where you really do get your moneys worth. I'm happy to pay these sort of prices if I think a game is that good. Ok I know a lot of you will say that I can't compare this to Ateil because the 360 game has a far greater trade in value, but if the Industry has it's way soon second hand gaming will no longer exist. So how far would 40 odd quid get you in Alteil?
Last edited by Ropey on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What is going on?

Postby TLHM » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:35 am

Angelic Death - You signature is way too friggin' large. Seriously.


And since everyone seems so serious in this thread, I'll add to the actual topic. Shop options seem to be improving, but still are not what they should be. Honestly, I'd prefer it if the gran focus was taken off of cards and onto more aesthetics - like alternate arts of cards, avatar things, etc. Maybe F2P games have made lots of revenue (from what I understand) off of digital goods less at the center of their games. Like Hats in TF2, skins in LoL, etc. Alteil has some awesome art, and even more awesome seasonals and such. I'd be more likely to pay money for card alternate arts if I know I was going to get the ones I wanted, and I'd be happier paying for that than throwing money at the lotto hoping for cards I want.
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Re: What is going on?

Postby Urkredel » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:52 am

Logress wrote:As has been mentioned, I made a number of pre-preemptive posts, but I've decided to take on the game problem holistically. Basically, its impossible to look at the Shop as an isolated problem. The aggressive focus of the game, the fact there are few way too few ways to get enough cards to build a viable file without paying, the lack of options to play with non-top meta files, the lack of motivation to spend for any reason other than to build meta files you've seen win, etc.

Throughout my time here I spent a lot of time experimenting, sometimes increasing the CPC of one or two items, sometimes making things at a price so good, I would be sure the value was not even remotely in questions (like the 500 gran pre-built). Looking over the numbers, I found revenue drop as prices drop (not surprising) but it seems the amount was proportional (so there was no 'sweet spot' where lower prices were not as causing as big of an effect) AND also the number of people spending dropped (which is odd, but makes sense if you think of the ecosystem causing someone to spend, NOT the prices themselves). BTW, I haven't actually stopped experimenting, my latest is a 250 Gran gold pack, gurenteed 3 star, but it can go up to 5. It's the best rates we've had for set targeted packs.


IMHO you SHOULD make the prebuilts the flagship of Alteil offers..
The main problem is that RNG based sales , especially if expensive as in alteil, demotivates the player base because it often feels like you have been ripped off.

Make the prebuilts a better price (maybe 1000 gran) and promote them FAR BETTER; eg: make them the first thing you see when you click the SHOP button; or making a new graphic for them CLEARER and MORE APPEALING

DO NOT make announcement about how good is the new "XYZ" offer when it is a RNG based sale, that has an high risk to let the buyer being ripped off..
that's the main point you have to build faith in the customer, and making "better CPC" of an item it's not a good way if there's an high chance of giving the feeling you are robbing them, even if it is genuinly a better CPC. because better of BAD is not necessarely GOOD ... it may just be less bad... but since you are recommending it through an announcement it may amplify the feeling of fraud

a good way to build faith in the customer is : you are spending FAIRLY. that's why i suggest to push prebuilts... you KNOW what you are spending for, you spend 1000 gran and you can PLAY an EFFECTIVE FILE.
on RNG sales you can drop 10 times the money and being unable to paly anything good at all!!

keep that sort of sales for the big spenders, for the completionists...
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Re: What is going on?

Postby gadu » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:25 pm

It needs to be made perfectly clear somehow exactly every card you will get for buying any prebuilt.
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Re: What is going on?

Postby Romdeau » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:37 pm

The fact that he openly admits he is testing the market viability of Gold Packs after discussing some radically different ideas about how to market this game...kinda irks me the wrong way. It's not a healthy or fair way to distribute content. I'm glad that to provide evidence to your claim that these payments will be treated as donations to support the game you are writing up the financials and releasing them publicly.

There is no tangible motivation to play files other then the winning ones, but that doesn't mean there aren't players who play for reasons other then highest chance to win. Maybe you should try talking to these people? Good luck on getting rid of the perma-tournament mentality that is Folrart arena.
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Re: What is going on?

Postby AngelicDeath » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:40 pm

I agree with Ukredel completely.

One of the first things i did after starting in alteil 2 and buying some gran was purchasing 2 of their "user" prebuilds. There was and still are competitions to build decks -that will become pre-builds. these are voted on by the players and the top 3 sold in the shop. There are different tiers of these decks also. You generally have 1 of each sphere and typically some are higher in cost because they contain higher rarity or more EX cards.

People buy them because they know exactly what they are getting and canplay them straight out the door. They are also accompanied by an easy to decipher flow sheet that details the basic premise of the file.

Simple stuff.

Clearly the prebuilds from before impacted the revenue from the x? (daily lotto?). I imagine this would be the case of cross-priced elasticity of demand at work.

I am not quite sure where the primary stream of revenue is generated outside of set releases and a monthly influx from selling EX packs/boxes. Knowing a close estimate your chance to get a 5 star then cross referenced against the winners of the lucky iczer of the day should give an approximate daily looto revenue.

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Re: What is going on?

Postby angelspawns » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:45 pm

Logress wrote:... Looking over the numbers, I found revenue drop as prices drop (not surprising) but it seems the amount was proportional (so there was no 'sweet spot' where lower prices were not as causing as big of an effect) AND also the number of people spending dropped (which is odd, but makes sense if you think of the ecosystem causing someone to spend, NOT the prices themselves).

Let me give my explanation of this:

The largest portion of your playerbase that remains & spends on these are us oldtimers. People that pulled out their wallets whenever a new Set came out.
We blew our money on Goldboxes. ExLotto's. 777's and whatnot... and then prebuilds came. Prebuilds with cards we already posess or only need 1 or 2 off.

I bought a prebuild, recycled litteraly 95%, and kept the rare. It didn't get much revenue from me.


Meanwhile the target group you're trying to reach out to, newcomers and low spenders, are chased away by us 'big predators' in Folrart. Newcomers who came and went because the atmosphere of this game is horrible to them. They didn't think twice about spending a dime in this enviroment. When they did, they didn't know where to spend it on: Packs to get that cool looking doll file? Recommended first player purchase Beginner Packs? What a disappointment that turns out in Folrart and for their wallets!!

Nah, those newcomers willing to spend are few and rare. The people that are here, the largest part of your playerbase, are the hardcore p(l)ayers. People who can't say farewell to the money invested into our decks and want to stay on top with every Set/Ex release.
Unfortunatly our group turns out to small to support this game with our fundings.

But here we are again! Making new friends! Having a new clean start, ready to advertise again and pull in the fresh meat! And what do we see?........ Moneygrabbing Packs and Boxes in the Shop.


Is Alteil making a turn around or not?? Will you invest into an expanding playerbase or not?? Forget trying to make revenue out of your current playerbase Logress with your Goldpacks. We are few and not enough to sustain this game. Show us a Shop that's newplayer friendly. Remove those Set1~10 packs n Boxes. You need to make a complete turn around in the Shop: Bring back Prebuilds for 500~1000Gran. Tripple exchangers for 100Gran. (250Gran for 4*, 500Gran for 5*) FM buyable beginner packs. Have a pack re-roll option.(buy a pack, get a chance to reroll once if you dont like the choices!) Get an FM->Gran conversion rate for certain Shop options. Show us the light.
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Re: What is going on?

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:07 pm

Ropey wrote:As for pricing I look at it like this. I just paid £42 for Dishonoured on the 360. I got the special edition which included a set of tarot cards! I completed it in about a week, but much has been said about the replay value of this game. While this is true to a certain extent I don't think it's as great as say Skyrim where you really do get your moneys worth. I'm happy to pay these sort of prices if I think a game is that good. Ok I know a lot of you will say that I can't compare this to Ateil because the 360 game has a far greater trade in value, but if the Industry has it's way soon second hand gaming will no longer exist. So how far would 40 odd quid get you in Alteil?


You spent 42$ for the full game correct?

Skyrim is what? 60 pounds for the full game?


Now take the same money and see what you can buy with it in alteil. Not even half of a set, which is ridiculous cost.
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