What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD spam

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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:36 pm

Dilate: is a joke now. He was far scarier when 2x30 didn't knock him down to size. The slash nerf really hurt though, since it's basically a normal slash now. Also, yeah, he's a decent tank, but a decent tank for what now? Ruuca's trash.
Tally mystic: haven't seen her in forever, and the only files that can afford to use her are ones that need her to begin with (mids, bigs, which Falkow really lacks in).
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:48 pm

AqvasFire2 wrote:Dilate: is a joke now. ... Ruuca's trash.

Real.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:53 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:
AqvasFire2 wrote:Dilate: is a joke now. ... Ruuca's trash.

Real.


I know you're being sarcastic, Gon, but the usage that I've seen has dropped drastically. Ruuca is at best a niche counter to rush spam rather than a foundation to revive the archmage meta around, and with Gaiessoul here, not even that anymore. Dilate is also nowhere near what he used to be, and considering that Gowen is dead last right now in terms of viable metas, I think it's time some of those erratas got rolled back. I haven't seen rhino in a long time, Dilate and Bringer pop up from time to time but are just cases of "oh, those guys...meh" rather than "oh crap", pixies I don't see anymore at all (I suppose where free reviving exploding dolls are involved, there's very good reasons ofr that), and beltorat is only good until someone disrupts it with some well-placed returns like any level 3 combo file (which it is outside of ainhazard).

Seriously...I say roll back the errata on Dilate and Ruuca you guys did for set 10. Lawt, Gowen, and Falkow always had the tools to deal with Ruuca, and I don't think Refess is in any position to complain about anything at the moment.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AngelicDeath » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:56 pm

Saying Dilate is a joke is a bit overboard. Still a solid unit.

Gon,

Lots of cards are heavily used and not complained about- such as undine, ref cits, slyphs. So I don't know what your point is. I kinda get what you mean but in an overall context it doesn't add up. If Logress and Mysteryman ever give us a most used card page like Alteil2 has then maybe the " more used cards the more complained about" makes sense. I think that was your point but if i am incorrect please feel free to correct me.

Aug is a powerful doll. Remove 1 sp on the refund and overdose is fine.

AD
Last edited by AngelicDeath on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:00 pm

The refund on OD I think is actually a pretty fair nerf. I suppose this makes it pretty worthless on other augments, but this grim is only used on two maybe three units: Zu, MD Augment, and possibly Shvara (though sorta defeats the purpose of using a 2 SP grim and a 1 SP close).
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:58 pm

AqvasFire2 wrote:I know you're being sarcastic, Gon, but the usage that I've seen has dropped drastically.

Usage reflects what's trendy, not necessarily what's strong.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Peralisc9001 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:10 am

You're complaining about a lot of things here Gon. All it does is allow you to activate close skill sooner sooner than you would otherwise be able to. Now that is pretty significant, but I think if you want to argue why it's OP you need to base it around the idea why playing a grim is so strong and what it allows you to do.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:42 am

GonFreeces31 wrote:
AqvasFire2 wrote:I know you're being sarcastic, Gon, but the usage that I've seen has dropped drastically.

Usage reflects what's trendy, not necessarily what's strong.


That's like saying that what gets high RP is just trendy because the best players are playing it, not necessarily the strongest thing they can be playing.

Didn't stop you from nerfing:

EXPrim (twice)
Elite Fencer (twice)
Emana (twice)
Bringer (twice)
Jack (twice)
Ruuca (once but to irrelevance)
Dilate (in two separate ways)
Serpent (twice)
Bog wyvern (twice)
Urgrant (not much of a nerf until you realize that it makes the bad matchups with Lawtia worse)
Mirelia (who's now unplayable at a top tier level)
Rhino (who hasn't seen use since)
RFA (that simply got nerfed against the already-bad matchups)
EXLap (to irrelevance)
Kaldrao (though he had it coming)

And I'm sure there are more on that list, but those are just the metas that the errata team has "de-trended" (to put it kindly) thanks to their bumbling efforts. How many viable metas do we have now?

Lawtia: augments, dolls, big lawt possibly, EN, possibly CMD dolls
Falkow: possibly pirates thanks to Jewel open, possibly serpent, maybe some urgrant variant?
Refess: mid refess, possibly TJC (cut me a break)
Gowen: possibly Beltorat. BKR is dead since it'll either eat shade and get wrecked by Lawtia or eat jewel tidal and get wrecked by Falkow. Pick your poison.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:51 am

AqvasFire2 wrote:
GonFreeces31 wrote:
AqvasFire2 wrote:I know you're being sarcastic, Gon, but the usage that I've seen has dropped drastically.

Usage reflects what's trendy, not necessarily what's strong.


That's like saying that what gets high RP is just trendy because the best players are playing it, not necessarily the strongest thing they can be playing.


No it's not. You brought up that certain cards are not played. I said that if cards are NOT played, then it is NOT necessarily because they are weak. It could be because other cards are trendy at the moment. High RP cards and usage is another matter entirely.

This is basic logic.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:08 am

So if a card isn't used, it's not weak, it's just "not trendy" at the moment. Do I need to give you a hundred counterexamples to your assertion? I'd say the majority of cards are a counterexample to that assertion and you know it. Okay, fine...

Animated dead. Just "not trendy" at the moment? Bear killing axeman? Lightning archer? Swallow scout? Eagle soldier? Rapier Fencer? Spell Lancer? Light spearwoman? Girl combat priest? Lycan hanuman? Lycan angel? Highland born hunter? Combat monk? Expert martial artist? Beltorat shaman? Crest igniter? Chaos Form Noze?

There's a reason that cards are "not trendy" at the moment. Such as Ruuca not being able to cycle. Rasam needing a crapton of SP and specialized cards and then still not delivering great results. BKR not having a good opening and then Jack not able to deal with agility rush anymore.

You're trying to come at me by pretending to be good at logic. Thanks, I took the AI class last fall. I know how logic and truth tables work. You're barking up the wrong tree here, Gonzo. I'm deliberately yanking your chain because I want to show you your double standard--that you just can't accept that the errata team may have overnerfed a card, and even if it may have been properly nerfed back then, new cards that offer new answers to it work now, and no longer justify the original errata in the first place.

But you guys just can't imagine that you may have, *gasp*, actually been wrong for once.
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