What's a troll?

Re: What's a troll?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:10 pm

I think new players will not want to come to the forums as they seem to be filled by nothing but personal slurs and endless bickering. They will also find the lack of forum moderation allowing such behavior to persist alarming.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby Peralisc9001 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:17 pm

It's ok, some of us can still tolerate your bickering.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby Scientiafide » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:31 pm

I agree it would be nice if people didn't feel compelled to attack gon more. But Gon, ask yourself this, why are so many people annoyed by your posts? I know you love stats, here are some stats to consider:

1) Your posts consist of 5%, or 1 out of 20 of all posts on this forum.

2) You have more posts than Logress (an actual dev for this game)

3) You have as many posts on here as both moderators combined (Romdeau and Spears)

4) Both Logress and Romdeau have been on these forums longer than you have.

See, the reason they express antipathy towards you is because you spam lots of annoying posts that contribute nothing. The reason they do so on every thread is because, again, you spam lots of annoying posts that contribute nothing. It's really, really difficult not to see your name attached to a topic because you post on nearly everything. Often on numerous occasions.

Personally, I don't think you're a bad guy, you seem alright by me. I don't really hate you or anything. You probably post so much because you have down time and you're bored. I'm just saying though, people don't like spamming. If you posted half as much as you do now, or actually said something of value on your posts instead of a bunch of nothing people wouldn't find you as annoying. It's also annoying that you come across so arrogantly at times.

When you make a topic like this, most people believe you're thinking, "I'm not really posting anything, I'm just posting to guide the entire community towards a 'meaningful conversation' on what I consider to be an inflammatory topic; an 'important' conversation they'd be unable to have otherwise without my intellect. But I wont contribute anything to it, except to occasionally prod people along when it looks like might stall. You know, since they're incapable of moving this conversation along otherwise."

And just to clarify, not every post has to be insightful or valuable, but the thing is the quantity with which you produce these types of posts... It's almost like you treat the alteil forums like twitter or something.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby GOSCAR » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:37 pm

What's a troll?

Baby don't sass me, don't sass me.

No more!




But to put it into laymens term you and me are fine example. Only I am smarter and more funnier than you.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby Peralisc9001 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:38 pm

@scifisomething I got more posts tho. @_@

Later edit:

Nevermind. Still about 2 or 3 hundred to go.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:52 pm

Scientiafide wrote:See, the reason they express antipathy towards you is because you spam lots of annoying posts that contribute nothing. The reason they do so on every thread is because, again, you spam lots of annoying posts that contribute nothing. It's really, really difficult not to see your name attached to a topic because you post on nearly everything. Often on numerous occasions.

I would disagree with this sentiment. I think a lot of my posts actually contribute quite a bit, I just do it very concisively and sometimes people disagree with what I have to say. A lot of people around here write entire paragraphs but convey very little substantive information.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby Scientiafide » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:29 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:
Scientiafide wrote:See, the reason they express antipathy towards you is because you spam lots of annoying posts that contribute nothing. The reason they do so on every thread is because, again, you spam lots of annoying posts that contribute nothing. It's really, really difficult not to see your name attached to a topic because you post on nearly everything. Often on numerous occasions.

I would disagree with this sentiment. I think a lot of my posts actually contribute quite a bit, I just do it very concisively and sometimes people disagree with what I have to say. A lot of people around here write entire paragraphs but convey very little substantive information.


Have you contributed to the community? Yes you have. But I think we can agree that not all eight thousand of your posts were helpful in any way, or even said anything. That's what makes them spammy.

Allow me to demonstrate by copy/pasting your last couple of posts shown on your profile, from most recent the least recent (not counting the one I just quoted of course):

1) ~The Gon effect~

2) I think new players will not want to come to the forums as they seem to be filled by nothing but personal slurs and endless bickering. They will also find the lack of forum moderation allowing such behavior to persist alarming.

3) Yes I understand you guys don't like me. It's becoming amusing how you all feel the need to express your antipathy in every thread on these forums. Way to create a positive environment to show the new players.

4) It's also pretty hard to have a productive conversation when we have grown men acting like prepubescent teenagers. I mean come on guys, why would you expect anything productive to come out of a thread where people result to personal attacks and slurs to try to "prove" their point? That's common in elementary school playgrounds, but I'd like to think we're above that.

5) There's no need for people to get so angry. There is a claim, so you justify your claim with specific arguments, and then those arguments can be evaluated. Problems arise when the specific arguments contain confounds.

6) Compare EX Lap to other level 3 Refess Solar Kingdom units. Tell me who is better than her.

7) EX Lap is still one of the best level 3 Refess units in the game. Your complaints are about the old "EX Lap meta," which is brought down by other inferior cards from earlier sets. EX Lap herself remains a very strong unit.

8) Actually demongod was the first person to make a clear, logical argument about exactly what is too strong - the interaction between jewel and mediator SS. Without mediator SS it wouldn't be a problem. I guess I have higher standards for what a "clear argument" is, it's kind of a side effect of being in academia.

9) Yeah I respect your opinion a lot icy. I was actually talkin to dg tho. He has pretty extreme views.

10) I guess I don't understand why you think dilate ruuca and jack are useless now? Have you compared them with other level 4 units?

11) Yeah that's a really good point. Thanks for being specific and clear.

12) Well there's a difference between playing a meta and playing it well. I totally suck with en but I played it a little and found it to be a pretty linear. Sure there's some adjusting to matchups and what not. Overall I think en with esky is relatively easy to just pick up and face roll, but to really master it takes a LOT of time and practice.

13) Actually dg made a good point. Sorry ilya. That's a good argument that the interaction between mediator ss and jewel is too strong.

14) A file reliant on level 2s would lose to most falkow with or without jewel. I don't think its appropriate to talk about tidal and faytis when they are only useful verse a small % of files. Certainly its good if you're falkow to get to your souls quickly. What I don't understand is the distinction between good and OP. Something can be good, but not op.

15) No it's not. You brought up that certain cards are not played. I said that if cards are NOT played, then it is NOT necessarily because they are weak. It could be because other cards are trendy at the moment. High RP cards and usage is another matter entirely. This is basic logic.

16) What was his point? It's a long thread...

17) Usage reflects what's trendy, not necessarily what's strong.

To all of you out there reading this who hate gon, please don't kill me. It had to be done.

Anyway, looking back at these posts, how many of them were necessary? How many of them actually said something useful? Most of these posts were in 2-3 threads, showing how you often repeat the same thing in the same exact thread (ie, spamming).

There are some legitimate reasons to post: to say something entertaining or funny, to share something with other people, to lay out your points and arguments; these are all good reasons to post. Anyway, I think this list speaks for itself.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:34 pm

Scientiafide wrote:2) I think new players will not want to come to the forums as they seem to be filled by nothing but personal slurs and endless bickering. They will also find the lack of forum moderation allowing such behavior to persist alarming.

3) Yes I understand you guys don't like me. It's becoming amusing how you all feel the need to express your antipathy in every thread on these forums. Way to create a positive environment to show the new players.

5) There's no need for people to get so angry. There is a claim, so you justify your claim with specific arguments, and then those arguments can be evaluated. Problems arise when the specific arguments contain confounds.

6) Compare EX Lap to other level 3 Refess Solar Kingdom units. Tell me who is better than her.

7) EX Lap is still one of the best level 3 Refess units in the game. Your complaints are about the old "EX Lap meta," which is brought down by other inferior cards from earlier sets. EX Lap herself remains a very strong unit.

8) Actually demongod was the first person to make a clear, logical argument about exactly what is too strong - the interaction between jewel and mediator SS. Without mediator SS it wouldn't be a problem. I guess I have higher standards for what a "clear argument" is, it's kind of a side effect of being in academia.

10) I guess I don't understand why you think dilate ruuca and jack are useless now? Have you compared them with other level 4 units?

12) Well there's a difference between playing a meta and playing it well. I totally suck with en but I played it a little and found it to be a pretty linear. Sure there's some adjusting to matchups and what not. Overall I think en with esky is relatively easy to just pick up and face roll, but to really master it takes a LOT of time and practice.

14) A file reliant on level 2s would lose to most falkow with or without jewel. I don't think its appropriate to talk about tidal and faytis when they are only useful verse a small % of files. Certainly its good if you're falkow to get to your souls quickly. What I don't understand is the distinction between good and OP. Something can be good, but not op.

15) No it's not. You brought up that certain cards are not played. I said that if cards are NOT played, then it is NOT necessarily because they are weak. It could be because other cards are trendy at the moment. High RP cards and usage is another matter entirely. This is basic logic.

17) Usage reflects what's trendy, not necessarily what's strong.

Yeah I totally agree that some of my posts are unnecessary. No one really has a perfect record with that though. I mean some people around here just post things that aren't true, or insult or slander others.

I think that all of these posts contributed to the threads I posted them in. If you think otherwise, I'd love to hear what specifically about them is spammy or didn't contribute to the thread.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby Scientiafide » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:18 pm

I'll break it down then I guess:

Post 1, 8: After an argument with people, saying things like this makes you come across as arrogant and a bit of an instigator.

Posts 2-5: To paraphrase, you're saying people don't like you (comes across as whiny, especially when you repeat it), and you rebuke other people for their behaviour. In four posts in a row (remember, I listed these in the order you posted them). Hell, I imagine there's a whole bunch of quotes just like these in that silly thread you recently made about prejudice in alteil.

Posts 6, 7, 10: Part of the reason people don't like when you make these types of posts is because they're usually one or two line posts that are very vague, and you're simply asking the person to convince you. Why not actually make your own arguments and points? What exactly about EX lap makes it good?

Post 9, 11, 13, 14: The only valid posts. I'll give you props for conceding the point as well, there are people so narrow-minded that it'd be impossible to convince them of anything, even if they're clearly wrong. The only reason I'm bothering to spend a few minutes to post this at all is because of that (well, that and the fact alteil wont load for me right now for some reason).

Post 15, 17: Again, saying the same thing. I actually know what you're saying and agree with you here (at least I think I do, these posts are pretty vague), but you really can't elaborate more than that?

Post 16: Seriously? You couldn't move one page over to see what his point was?

You said, "I think that all of these posts contributed to the threads I posted them in."
Now your turn, how did these contribute anything worthwhile at all? Again, not saying that you've never contributed or are incapable of doing so, but as people who have frequented the forums for way longer than I have can probably attest to, you certainly seem to have changed.
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Re: What's a troll?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:47 pm

I don't see the need to elaborate on points and I rarely ever do. This is an internet forum who wants to sit around reading and writing essays all day? I believe in making short concise posts that get to the heart of the matter. A lot of times I do just that. I understand some people dislike that posting style, but I'm a fan of quality over quantity. The complaint is really about me not elaborating on the point, rather than the point itself. I guess I should stop complaining about the slanderers. It's just I tend to get 5-10 personal insults a day these days. We really need a mod to ban those people.

You know I looked back through the Jewel thread. Most of the OP arguments were legitimately poorly formed arguments. It's not just my opinion or anything. Very few people, if any, specifically identified and communicated why they thought Jewel was overpowered. Many argued that it's independently overpowered, which I argued against and I still think is a flawed argument. The argument that DG made that's actually really good, is the interaction between Jewel and Mediator SS. Tidal and Faytis happen sure, but they can happen with or without Jewel being there. It's the mediator SS interaction that's really powerful. That interaction was not focused on by people for a long, long time. They just started doing what they usually do - slander those who present different opinions.
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