What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD spam

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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:56 pm

angelspawns wrote:It isnt about something being unbeatable or not. It's about what they DONT make playable.

To be fair, this view is very spike-ish. There are lots of files that can attain 50% win rates or higher. Having several files that exist that hard counter you does NOT make a file "completely unplayable."

If you define playable as obtaining 90% win rates or higher, well sure lot's of stuff "isn't playable." Lots of timmies and jimmies don't care about that, though. I mean I still like to play Big Blue even though I only get around 60-80% win rates with it. It's fun for me and niche.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby angelspawns » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:09 pm

Don't forget the part that follows: " About what they counter into obscurity out of the Folrart arena, and about making other cardchoices absolete by their powercreep"
The cards i mentioned are powercreeping other choices imo, and make for boring encounters in Folrart. Mid Refess is all about Verlaat. Lawtia lvl3 rush all about MD Aug. And Ryu stats are blatant powercreep compared to other lvl4 Falkow choices. (nobody in the designteam seems to count his double atk and debuff onto his stats).
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Romdeau » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 pm

Please do not generalize the design team as if we were actively involved with set 11's creation. At least, I do not appreciate being lumped into the accreditation of that set.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:18 pm

The only thing my mid refess loses to are mirrors, diondora/mystere, belt kingdom, and monsters. So I assure you monsters are quite good against refess. If the level 2 survives, it usually kills something. If you hit both row 2 units, that's 2 level 4s down with one level 2 on your field. The yuni is just a bit extra just to cement the win. You'll have plenty of chances to use yuni's skill. The whole file is mostly made up of level 2s and 1s with 3 units level 3, so once you get everything out by turn 10 or something, you stop playing cards (besides breath of the undead for 1 sp fire arrow kill at low gowen levels) and have sp to spam her skill.
See, most of the things out there right now are things that I've been playing and started playing way before it became "meta." So I know how to counter it. One card like fairy blessing or general's orders or miracle fruit or tree of hate or shade can really turn the whole match around. If you time a shade to drain falkow's sp to stop a potential return 2 turns later and at the same time dodge a violet ss and delay your salamander next turn for the owl, well, then you're just that much closer to winning. Course, that isn't as obvious as something like making gaiessoul backfire.
And no, I don't share files publicly. I usually don't share files on the guild forums either unless I'm done playing with them for the meanwhile. I hate it when ppl know my ss and when I only have 2 copies of something and take advantage of it (even though I take advantage of their's). To be fair though there were 3 matches where I recalled one of my opponent's ss (pom, lucia, and rasam) and timed a dragon breath iczer or sala iczer or forest of hate right when I knew it was about to trigger.
Ryu is 3 copies and then the whole mage soldier file falls apart. If you can sin or remove him, it's gg. They need more main units not just support.
For MD Aug, just put out ex cak or broken virus (who is a lot better than both of them combined) and she is donzo.
For overdose... you just have to get around that. It's a good thing monsters can take A LOT of damage.
For verlaat, remove him or tank him and then kill him. He's one unit. The main problem facing verlaat is that you have to be careful with his engage vs a really good player who times it to avoid sins, fiertes, field wipe ss, disengage ss, which I haven't seen yet.

For filebuilding, besides thinking about counters, think about opens too. Like for example alraune dryad seems really good vs mid refess, but then you think of lawtia. Most of them pack ebeeru ss 1st, which hits through alraune's defense and drains you 1 sp. Not something you'd want to do. Nor have alraune in your file at all actually.

Finally, the best thing about monsters and this takes a lot of getting used (I make dumb mistakes all the time) to is unit placement. You usually want to place your dudes mid row so you can put dryads and whatnot in front, unless you want the salamander to go in the back for extra damage. But sometimes if you really need to build up field, then you want to place them in row 1 so you have the extra space. They are really slow so use that to your advantage... won't be acting anytime soon. The level 2 will destroy if opponent doesn't attack, so that's good for you to stall too. If you have a sac unit like primrose with more agi, you can always move it back and then attack.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby angelspawns » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:49 pm

You don't have to share your file. When your solutions involve Sin or remove i heard enough.
My wild guess is lots of low lvl spam with fierte and sin. Good on you.

Ps; Another pro tip: Ryu doesnt need magesoldiers or Balboa. Just 4 Falkowlvl.
Last edited by angelspawns on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:50 pm

angelspawns wrote:You don't have to share your file. When your solutions to all problematic units are Sin or remove i heard enough.
My wild guess is lots of low lvl spam with fierte and sin. Good on you.

You're dumb. My file has neither. I think fierte is a terrible ss. I never suggested it. Go read my post again.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:00 pm

Aside from the slightly more hostile tone, icyman really reminds me of imortal around set 6 when imortal was tearing it up using Pega WK (oh hey, a file that the errata team killed dead thanks to the elite fencer HP nerf. Even 5 DF or 10 HP would make that meta at least somewhat playable again). Doesn't have all the cards, but a solid player nevertheless that keeps his mistakes to a minimum.

My one issue with him though is that he's loath to reveal his files b/c he realizes that no matter how good his files are, if someone knows it, they can pick him apart. Basically, not even a player as skilled as icy can change the fact that 25 card slots are just not enough to adapt to every situation a file can face in this game.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:09 pm

AqvasFire2 wrote:Aside from the slightly more hostile tone, icyman really reminds me of imortal around set 6 when imortal was tearing it up using Pega WK (oh hey, a file that the errata team killed dead thanks to the elite fencer HP nerf. Even 5 DF or 10 HP would make that meta at least somewhat playable again). Doesn't have all the cards, but a solid player nevertheless that keeps his mistakes to a minimum.

My one issue with him though is that he's loath to reveal his files b/c he realizes that no matter how good his files are, if someone knows it, they can pick him apart. Basically, not even a player as skilled as icy can change the fact that 25 card slots are just not enough to adapt to every situation a file can face in this game.

25 is just right. You can't pack for everything. Nothing is better than in the final moments of file creation/adjusting taking out a 3rd copy or swapping one card for another just because you don't have enough room. Otherwise, your files would not change with the meta so to speak and it would be all about grinding your perfected file.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:24 pm

That's exactly what I hate. That you indeed can't pack for everything. Because when you can't pack for everything is exactly when you run into a match that's just a case of "oops, I lose because I couldn't pack for this match". Because consider the alternative: that you can pack for everything, but don't have the SP or set phases to play everything. Then, if you have a match of two files that packed for everything, it becomes a who played his everything better, not how did the match get decided on turn 1 because of asymmetric metas.

Starcraft is designed around having 3 metas that pack for everything. Warcraft 3 with 4 metas.

Also, right now, we're not even close to "grinding for perfection". If you're playing worthing's EN, a Jewel tidal Faytis open will just send you home right there. Mid refess may also do that thanks to locking out succu and rats. If you're playing Big Red, a Fierte EN usually means you're through (ironically enough, Rasam saves this match from being completely one-sided). Those matches that you "can't pack for" aren't good. They're either face-rolling boring (oh look, I play this and that, and then I can do anything and win) or extremely frustrating (EG Gowen Rush in set 5 vs. EXLap that just spammed rest in your face and you had no EX Yuni).
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby angelspawns » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:28 pm

Ryu? Remove. Verlaat? Remove & tank. Overdose? Tank. You're a real genius. It's nice you got a monsterfile that's strong against all the current stuff, but as long as your not sharing i doubt people will get much better from hearing 'you must remove/tank/kill it to win'.

The point never was things are unbeatable. Ive beaten everything i complain about at some point. (and mind you, im not unwilling to share my underdog monsterfile getting silver stars, stats and all). My point is there's powercreep in Set 11 that should be adressed. Those 4 cards i mentioned need some rework, regardless of how wonderful your secret monsterfile is treating you.
Last edited by angelspawns on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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