Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby AqvasFire2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:57 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:
AqvasFire2 wrote:Also, the issue with Jewel compared to other level 2s is that it gets itself off the field, allowing you to Faytis that much quicker without risk.

Why does using faytis now, verse turn 4 make a difference? In both cases the opponent will be down 1-2 SP. Not to mention that in many cases Faytis isn't even useful like if it's verse a standard 1-3-1-3 open. Your argument is based on creating an SP advantage, and not the temporal aspect. Once again, Jewel only affects the temporal aspect, NOT the relative difference in SP advantages.

I'm just saying from a person who has relied on Faytis to win games for years now, this argument of "sooner faytis = OP" sounds really flimsy. When I used to play a lot of Mirelia and Serpent I would always drop Faytis AFTER playing Mirelia or Sea Hunter and generally saw no point in rushing it.

So once again to be clear, obviously Faytis creates an SP advantage, but Faytis, by definition of what it does, is only useful in a select number of cases and is many times useless. So you're arguing about a subset games, which is akin to saying, "Vonderam is OP because he is too strong verse level 3 rushes." Additionally, Faytis can be used when you open Jewel OR you open cath. Personally, I find Cath - MoF - Faytis to be superior to Jewel - Tidal - Faytis. Once again, you aren't comparing Jewel open with Cath open, and you're not addressing the temporal aspect of the SP edge.


The issue is that this subset of matches isn't just "level 2 rush" but "level 2 open". EG want to open archer scout dryad with BKR? Tough. Want to open tiger exgirl? Tough. So it's either open buncle (risk backlsah), Rileira (just complete junk), or get shaded. As for early Faytis, if you play her earlier and she dies earlier, your SP flows better. *Shrug*
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:58 pm

Let's ask another question. Compare:

1) Jewel tidal faytis lvl 3
2) Cath mof lvl 3 faytis

What is the difference in conditions where you are NOT using mediator ss? Its not that hard.jewel has no unique interactions with tidal faytis that normal cath opens do not.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:00 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:Let's ask another question. Compare:

1) Jewel tidal faytis lvl 3

2) Cath mof lvl 3 faytis

What is the difference in conditions where you are NOT using mediator ss? Its not that hard.

EN gets 3 more banes in? You return 2 level 2s instead of one. You have more field advantage when faytis hits the field (against eskatia one shot, against night unit can't attack).
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby fargone » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:10 pm

Still trying to convince gon...


...have fun with that.
GonFreeces31 wrote:
fargone wrote:I realise this is completely off topic, but Icy deserves the limelight more than others. Some of whom dominate the forums with their endless posts.


What, I make legit points too...
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby AqvasFire2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:11 pm

Okay, look, how about this proposal to nerf Jewel:

Open skill: you cannot play a Falkow grimoire next turn.
Start skill: target unit gets lvl +1.

Also, mediator SS:
condition: SP <=1, instead of SP=3, since who the heck has 3 SP regularly enough to depend on that SS unless they jewel open?
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:38 pm

AqvasFire2 wrote:Okay, look, how about this proposal to nerf Jewel:

Open skill: you cannot play a Falkow grimoire next turn.
Start skill: target unit gets lvl +1.

Also, mediator SS:
condition: SP <=1, instead of SP=3, since who the heck has 3 SP regularly enough to depend on that SS unless they jewel open?

So it's like an iczerable pom?
I agree with that jewel nerf 100% make it target opponent unit gets level + 1. Also make the open neither player can set falkow grim next turn.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby AqvasFire2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:54 pm

Icyman2 wrote:
AqvasFire2 wrote:Okay, look, how about this proposal to nerf Jewel:

Open skill: you cannot play a Falkow grimoire next turn.
Start skill: target unit gets lvl +1.

Also, mediator SS:
condition: SP <=1, instead of SP=3, since who the heck has 3 SP regularly enough to depend on that SS unless they jewel open?

So it's like an iczerable pom?
I agree with that jewel nerf 100% make it target opponent unit gets level + 1. Also make the open neither player can set falkow grim next turn.


Effectively yep, an iczerable pom. Not sure if that'd make it OPOP considering how easily you could trigger it, but whatevs.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:10 pm

Icyman2 wrote:
GonFreeces31 wrote:Let's ask another question. Compare:

1) Jewel tidal faytis lvl 3

2) Cath mof lvl 3 faytis

What is the difference in conditions where you are NOT using mediator ss? Its not that hard.

EN gets 3 more banes in? You return 2 level 2s instead of one. You have more field advantage when faytis hits the field (against eskatia one shot, against night unit can't attack).

Cath mof etc etc puts you up anywhere from 1-3 more sp ahead by turn 5 than a jewel tidal open.

"You return two level 2s instead of one" - that's only true of mediator ss instances.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:13 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:
Icyman2 wrote:
GonFreeces31 wrote:Let's ask another question. Compare:

1) Jewel tidal faytis lvl 3

2) Cath mof lvl 3 faytis

What is the difference in conditions where you are NOT using mediator ss? Its not that hard.

EN gets 3 more banes in? You return 2 level 2s instead of one. You have more field advantage when faytis hits the field (against eskatia one shot, against night unit can't attack).

Cath mof etc etc puts you up anywhere from 1-3 more sp ahead by turn 5 than a jewel tidal open.

"You return two level 2s instead of one" - that's only true of mediator ss instances.

Or sp+2 instances.
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Re: Nerf Jewel of the Deep Sea

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:20 pm

people do 2-1-3-1-3 open. Cath open comes out ahead of jewel open and you might not have to burn through 2 grims to return the first level 2 unit.
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