Casual player arena - once again

User suggestions to improve the game

Casual player arena - once again

Postby justtmpuser » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:22 pm

Since there is no story mode/single player in Alteil, this would be as close to game with your friends at the kitchen table as possible. Most of it can be achived by simple modifications to already existing Training Arena.
Basic rules:
1. No level. Imagine your average Alice or Bob. they come to play game only to learn that they have to face someone lvl 217 or 305. Are they going to stay? Of course not. Before you cry "but level doesn't mean anything!": yes it does. It means you have crapload of cards and even more experience. And most of all, it's simply discouraging. We all know stories how you were low level and kicked all high levels' butts and gained a lot of xp. That's cool story bro, but Alice or Bob doesn't know that/doesn't have same skill/doesn't believe they can/simply doesn't care.
2. No win/loss indicator. Everything that can be discouraging to new player and has no effect on gameplay should go away and never come back. You want to play seriously? Join competetive arena, nobody stops you. Do you keep live-time score when playing games with friends? Of course not.
3. No win streaks. Same reasons as above. If you win several games in a row, good for you. No need to be a **** and rub it in other people's faces.
4. No RP. I think that one is pretty obvious.
5. Both sides get same reward from Treasure Battle. This is one of more controversial ideas, so let me explain why it should be like this. Even without win/loss ratio/streaks/RP people won't experiment with wacky decks if they'll have filling that they can lose out potential reward. Why risk playing for fun and missing free 5* when I can grind with EN? To keep it fair you might increase base chance of TB in competetive arena. As for botting: every other multiplayer that I ever played 1) forbids it in ToS, 2) punishes it with ban, 3) has scripts to detect it automatically. Not implementing something because it can be abused is like saying you shouldn't make cars with wheels, because this leads to road accidents. It's completely absurd and poor excuse for programmer's incompetence and/or laziness. Every other game deals with bots, so why not Alteil?
6. Personal banned/restricted list. My personal favourite. It's probably very hard to implement, but Mystery Man showed he knows what he's doing and I have faith in his skills. Every player could make his list of cards (s)he doen't want to face (hello, return!). Before game begins, system would check if no card in other player's deck is on the list and if it is, would tell him offending cards and ask to select new deck. Remember how I said I want it to be as close to casual game at the kitchen table? This would emulate house rules almost every group of players have. No more quitting or stalling games because somebody played card you consider unfair/unbalanced/simply not fun to play against. Additional option: when system detects that opponent's deck is not valid, it would display those cards (banned only) to you and ask if you agree to play anyway. For example: somebody playing Carbuncles has pixies on banned list, but I want to teach them how to beat them using Carbs. This way (s)he doesn't have to modify b/r list and can just click "ok". And only if they deny you'd be promted to select new deck. This could be done for example as separate tab on your profile, with thumbnails of all cards and 3 checkboxes: banned (not a single copy in opponent's deck), restricted (one copy allowed - overcoming single Dilate can be fun experience, killing 3 is plain annoying) and conditional. This last one would be additional option and only cards marked as "conditional" would promt "do you want to fight them anyway?". For example, I could mark pixies as banned/conditional, so when I feel like it I could allow them and mark Diondorra as banned, so decks with that card would be automatically rejected without promting. Again, I realize it is quite complicated, but it's either that or replacing every. single. person. on testing team and rebalancing entire game from scratch. Something tells me that MM could implement it several times before Logress would touch return mechanic... This would also had added benefit of giving feedback from entire playerbase: balancing team would have data about which card(s) are most hated and could change them. No more BS excuses. 50%+ players bans card? There clearly is something wrong with it then.
Points 1-5 are pretty much obligatory if you want to have any chance of retaining casual players. 6 is Optional, But Cool. And would definitely make Alteil stand out among huge amount of other "free" to play CCGs. And imagine Alteil forum without a single "I hate return" topic...

So why would anyone play competetive arena with all that cool stuff implemented? Two reasons: bragging rights and Alteil championship. Since there would be no RP in casual arena, there would be no way other than winning tournaments (good luck with that without knowing top decks in competetive arena) to qualify for championship. This way casual players could have fun and serious ones could win rewards, everybody would be happy (more or less).

So What About Levels?
I think they should be gone. It doesn't make sense that you gain more xp by beating high level player playing undedog than by beating low level netdecker. Cards from lvl-ups should be rewarded every x games played instead (again, botting is not an excuse for not introducing features). This would also be very beneficial for new players. Currently lvl 1 comes to Folrart bored waiting for match in Crest, someone takes pity on her/him and surrenders and bam! Low lvl just lost several chances at obtaining cards from guaranteed TBs (s)he would get by slow levelling in Crest. Casual players don't need levels, competetive still have their RP epeen.

inb4 we don't need more arenas: yes we do. Just look around forum at all those insults and tensions between players with different approaches toward gaming. War Metal Tyrant is much more successful that Alteil ever was because most of its content has nothing to do with competetive play, and even if you're in faction you can play at your own pace. The more players game has, the better odds of attracting heavy spenders, and since majority of players are casuals, every game has to cater to them, wheter you like it or not.

All competetive asshats please don't bother responding. We all know what you think, you made your vitriolic voice heard before. This game died once already without support of casual players, so if you're against this idea, you basically want Alteil to wither and die again. And if you agree that we need that kind of arena, spam Logress/Mystery Man with links to this topic until at least one of them at the very least acknowledges that they're aware of this problem. And no, MM's previous single sentence doesn't count, since he said nothing about possible solutions (or if they even know how to tackle this problem).
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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:43 pm

Sounds nice and well, but sad truth is ...
~ Retired ~
perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby Icyglare » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:47 pm

There is an arena for that, just no rewards because you play for fun/testing.

Other games deals with bots but not very well.
For a large amount of various Alteil Replays, try youtube link

<-- http://www.youtube.com/AlteilReplays -->

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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby Pikeru » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:43 am

I love idea number 6, waiting for nerfs that never come clearly isn't working. At the same, I'd also like a personal list to block specific players as well. It doesn't have to be too long, I'm sure most only have 2 or 3 players they would add to it. However, I believe these lists should apply to Folrart as well, but they're probably allergic to that idea.
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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby gadu » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:30 am

I just want to know if it is okay to stall in the casual arena?
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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby Icyman2 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:37 am

6 is just stupid. I can just block every card but the starter cards and face only starter files. Plus I can see my opponent's full file and decide if I want to face it? Is op dg's alt?
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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby Khiruki » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:38 am

Icyman2 wrote:6 is just stupid. I can just block every card but the starter cards and face only starter files. Plus I can see my opponent's full file and decide if I want to face it? Is op dg's alt?


Pretty sure it's Seizan.

Also, would DG try to advocate more for casual/for fun players?
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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby Pikeru » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:44 am

gadu wrote:I just want to know if it is okay to stall in the casual arena?

If you'd read the first post, stalling would be a very rare occurrence, especially if idea 6 were implemented. The very idea of a casual arena inherently makes the concept a non-issue.
Icyman2 wrote:6 is just stupid. I can just block every card but the starter cards and face only starter files. Plus I can see my opponent's full file and decide if I want to face it? Is op dg's alt?

I suppose you could try to do a cheap trick like that, but since it's all casual it would be a pointless effort. You gain nothing from winning except to pad your own ego.
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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby Icyman2 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:47 am

RP is there just for kicks and people's egos. Gives a sense of progress of your playing skill. Level is there for that too, except to show how long you've been playing and reward you with cards. I agree with hiding those in-game but getting rid of them means getting rid of many of the people addicted to this game.
Win/loss indicator is just useless. No one looks at it. Win streaks is useless too.
If both players get the reward from a TB, then it wouldn't be TB right? TBs are supposed to be fun anyways. I experiment with files and I don't care if I lose a one star. If I get it, it's just bonus icing on top.

All in all, a casual arena will never happen because competition makes people pay for cards. And alteil needs that payment to keep on releasing sets and maintaining server costs.
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Re: Casual player arena - once again

Postby AqvasFire2 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:15 am

There is a casual arena. It's called training arena. Use it.
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