Hey, Nerf Gregory.

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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:05 pm

Yeah I think people are misunderstanding me. I don't think Greg is OP at all. I was just commenting on Demongod's argument about counters justifying excessive power levels of cards.
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby AqvasFire2 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:01 pm

You call Bringer excessive compared to Verlaat? Are you joking?

Also, Ruuca excessive? Cut me a freaking break. Three spheres had amazing counters to her in set 10, and with Etoile, Refess just got one in set 11. IMO the whole idea of "a card you absolutely need to counter is broken" is BS. The point of putting together a good file is to have answers (or create problems for) as many files out there as possible. If you know Ruuca's in the meta, then instead of whining to nerf her, find a card to counter her. And honestly, when it's a level 4 character that takes just a crapton of resources to set up (summon her, cover her with time stop, transform her), you should be fine with her getting a wipe off, because it's a pretty hefty SP outlay on the Ruuca player's part before anything happens to the opponent.

Same deal with Greg. The dude's supposed to actually accomplish something. Speaking of which, why the heck was his at +30 limited to level 3 or lowers in order to focus him? Too afraid of synergy with Jack Winston? Well, there's always Mureria (or I suppose LeiSei, though Leisei is junk).
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:05 pm

The problem is you're judging OPness relative to counters, whereas I would judge OPness on how good a card is relative to how good other similar cards are. Pre nerf Ruuca was drastically stronger than any other level 4 falkow card in the game, regardless of whether counters existed or not, I would argue that's sufficient to nerf.
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby AqvasFire2 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:29 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:The problem is you're judging OPness relative to counters, whereas I would judge OPness on how good a card is relative to how good other similar cards are. Pre nerf Ruuca was drastically stronger than any other level 4 falkow card in the game, regardless of whether counters existed or not, I would argue that's sufficient to nerf.


Dafuq are you smoking? Stronger than any other level 4 Falkow card in the game...that really isn't saying much considering the rest of Falkow's level 4s aside from possibly Marduk and Urgrant (possibly...even those two are going out of style) are unspectacular, to say the least. And also, the nerf you gave her removed her from use, period. I tried some sort of "return of Ruuca" file with Inzaghi, but oh hey, guess what, the absolutely unnecessary Sp=0 nerf to Jewel said "oops, you're screwed", once again, not to mention Gaiessoul, overdose smacking Anttila, and a whole host of other reasons that Ruuca even in her pre-nerf status wouldn't be the monster she was just a set ago--and a set ago, it was simply a case of people not knowing how to play against her.
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby Scientiafide » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:34 am

The counters that are available should be taken into consideration when making decisions on errata. If there are several means for several different strategies to combat a card and have a chance to fight back, that's good. If a card is so powerful that the only way to beat it is to pack one of a small handful of cards into a file, that's bad. Sure, the good players will adapt either way, but it's still bad for the game as it helps invalidate the many cards in the card pool. One of the best ways to evaluate all of this is to have a thriving playerbase that could help put things to test, which is unfortunately something we do not have.

And come one DG, there are no good falkow lvl 4s except urgrant and marduk? What about Cyclone, Volfied, Plundering girl pirate, Wrath, Ryu, Ex Mystere, Faytis, and Reia? And that's just at the top of my head.
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby Anima13 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:26 am

Scientiafide wrote:
And come one DG, there are no good falkow lvl 4s except urgrant and marduk? What about Cyclone, Volfied, Plundering girl pirate, Wrath, Ryu, Ex Mystere, Faytis, and Reia? And that's just at the top of my head.



Ahm there are times this comunity has ... expression issues. This is one of them.

There are many "good" lvl4 falkow units existing in falkow. But good doesnt mean that you just field him and he tanks, protect your lp and keep killing units of your opponent.
All falkow units are sp inefficient considering tanking an attack potential, and thus very vulnerable to an sp lock via revive every turn. They all require direct or indirect field support/sp/alternative resources. If there would be existing such a standalone unit, I would guarantee you, every mid and big falkow file would use it as an early unit, and he/she would be overpowered as hell in any rush and co. This is normal, this has been always this way and makes sense in the concept of falkow.

So when DG sais something like there is no good Falkow lvl4, he want to express that there is no real standalone unit existing in falkow, in contrast to lawtia, in contrast to refess and especially in contrast to gowen.
Just to give you an example: for a wk file to kill an OPlate I need 6 sp advantage and 3 field position alive (not closed) and OPlate sitting alone on the field with lowered agi so i can hit first.
To kill any lonely falkow lvl4 I dont need more then 2 units on the filed, usually no sp advantage at all (maximum to dodge return but here its just about a filed comparison) and maybe agi manipulation.


What is so upsetting some of the players here when they reading the so called "counters" in falkow sphere is, exuse me, by all good will, listing them is pointless. It is pointless cause most falkow files will loose anyway against the gowen file, regardless what kind of lvl4 unit they are running. And if this doesnt happen then that gowen file was designed bad, the opponent played bad/ made a huge mistake I could capitalize on, or he is experimenting with some of the new filed concept type gowen files without success.

But I can understand this is something unusual for the community, especially if they dont play falkow files. After all most falkow players dont open a nerfthread for every new gowen cards and scream: "nerf this, nerf that" every day.

Out of falkow perspective, due to the reasons mentioned above, it is difficult for me to judge this card. Rather it should be looked from the spehres/decks perspective, which usually win/give a good fight against gowen files like this, how they perform and how they can deal with this card.
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby GuilleumeFG » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:38 am

I can say at least 20 counters to greg but no is the easy baby mode you want to play? so lets nerf all of the key cards they release... are you lazy even to put a unit hate on your file?
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:32 am

Returns should have at least as many counters.
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby Muklas » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:00 am

They do.
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Re: Hey, Nerf Gregory.

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:07 am

Unlike Greg, they got 0 direct counters.
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