Hey, Nerf Gregory.

[GonFreeces31]

Yeah that's a good idea! Let's start whining about return in this thread TOO! WOW! There's an interesting idea!

[Peralisc9001]

Unlike Greg, they got 0 direct counters.

You only further prove this, gon.

[AqvasFire2]

The counters that are available should be taken into consideration when making decisions on errata. If there are several means for several different strategies to combat a card and have a chance to fight back, that's good. If a card is so powerful that the only way to beat it is to pack one of a small handful of cards into a file, that's bad. Sure, the good players will adapt either way, but it's still bad for the game as it helps invalidate the many cards in the card pool. One of the best ways to evaluate all of this is to have a thriving playerbase that could help put things to test, which is unfortunately something we do not have.

And come one DG, there are no good falkow lvl 4s except urgrant and marduk? What about Cyclone, Volfied, Plundering girl pirate, Wrath, Ryu, Ex Mystere, Faytis, and Reia? And that's just at the top of my head.

Volfied is situational. So is cyclone and wrath and ex mystere and faytis. Ryu, Dub, and Reia are all very combo-dependent and do relatively little damage compared to Ruuca. And yes, I know a lot of stuff does relatively little damage compared to Ruuca, but considering all the possible cards out there that do a gazillion different things if you combo them up, Ruuca makes for a very nice catch-all if you can tease out their counters that they should be saving for her (wrath, sakura, engages, etc.).

In this "easily-randomed-out" environment, IMO the old Ruuca was exactly the kind of card that was good card design--in the improper file, she'd be used as a panic button and get countered. But in a proper file designed to try and counter her counters, she became something that dealt with a crapload of stuff and saved your hide (barely) against a whole assortment of strategies that would otherwise plow you under. From what I recall, very few people actually *played* her. They just saw Blacksun with a goldstar and thought "broken".

Look, I never actually *used* Ruuca. I just played against her. And I found her to be very fun to play against. And yes, I've played a rush against her and gotten my clock utterly cleaned because I ran out of counters (she came down past my SSs) and said "fair enough. Ruuca didn't kill me--the lack of resources did."

See, in M:tG, cards like prenerf Ruuca were (last time I played anyway) considered fair, things such as Upheaval+psychatog, which if you didn't kill your opponent by then, he'd return all permanents to their owners' hands, float 3 mana, and drop a single unit that he'd throw all his resources into and it'd kill you the next turn. That deck was considered top meta. It wasn't considered broken (at least not by me). Was it not fun to play against? That'd depend on your definition of fun. If fun meant wet-and-wild-do-whatever-the-hell-you-want, then, no, you weren't going to have fun, since the entire point of the deck was to counter or kill any creature you played, draw more cards than you, and right before doing the upheaval+psychatog combo, cunning wish for a mana short, start a counter war, untap, combo you, and next turn, kill you.

And yes, most newbies lost to that stuff, but good players didn't. In short, that deck was a bad player killer, the same way Ruuca/Dilate was. And I for one think MtG was fun in the days of 2 mana counterspells (1 if you include force spike and circular logic with madness). This whole "let everyone do what they want" takes all the strategy out of the game.

[angelspawns]

I don't know DG... You make it sound like there are actually more strategies playable now. If you can't find a deck anymore that gets you 90% easy win matchups that's fine by me.

[Peralisc9001]

I don't get the lack of resources part.

Do you mean there should have been more counters added?

[AqvasFire2]

I don't get the lack of resources part.

Do you mean there should have been more counters added?

No, I mean I ran out of counters. You can have as many counters as you want, a file still only has 25 cards and 5 soul slots. And AD, a player better than 95% of the playerbase should be able to have a 95% win rate if the game is actually a good, competitive game.

[Peralisc9001]

I have to say that will all the refess buffing and healing and strong DF etc, gowen pretty much runs out of options. Greg is just one small step towards balancing that out.

[quickdragon]

He still one-shots or cripples anything he hits for one sp.

Only when he has an army behind, if he's solo he's useless.
The skill used to be atk + nr of friendly units x20. Now it's only nr of friendly units x20.

Now to get back on topic.
If Greg shouldn't get nerfed then neither does Miff.
Yeah you can name stuff to counter Greg, but we can also name stuff to counter Miff.

If you want to keep Greg as he is then you're also saying you should keep Miff as she is. You guys (the ppl that want to keep Greg as he is and are against Miff start) have no right to whine about her start skill anymore.

[Romdeau]

I like how miffyre randomly gets dragged into a topic about Gregory.

[AqvasFire2]

I like how miffyre randomly gets dragged into a topic about Gregory.

Edit: don't we ban people for derailing topics? And just to feed the troll, Miff's going to get nerfed into the ground sooner or later. Either all SP generators can readily generate SP like she does, or she joins the rest of them in the "grim/SS magnet" bin. Pick one.