Make Refess reliant on more than start skill snowballs

[GonFreeces31]

Refess is boring. They use the same exact strategy every game. Play units, spam start skills, snowball. I don't think Refess should be so reliant on the same trick every game. I think start skills and snowballing effects should be nerfed so that the sphere can do other things better.

What do you think?

[AngelicDeath]

I agree but you'll have your work cut out for you. Next set is 4 units with start skills. Lapierre, both TGC, and 1 other unit i cannot remember. A few counter units and 1 very powerful unit for level Esper with a slight downside. She either kills u or does no damage -like the opposite of felice, but it is an action skill which is cool.

What kind of idea did you have in mind?

AD

[GonFreeces31]

I think it's a pointless quest. It's like saying "let's find a way for gowen to work without relying on damage grims"

[Anima13]

I find there are some very good debuffing concepts existing in refess. But people dont use them cause they rather want to play gowen pow pow with tanks.
Such concepts are for example attack debuff and range debuff.
I am afraid controlling concepts in refess wont break through cause people will ditch the cards with the argument "not tanky enogh". And if someone designs tanky control units it wil break the game just like a 50hp diondora would.

I think it's a pointless quest. It's like saying "let's find a way for gowen to work without relying on damage grims"

the field concept gowendecks are quiet intresting actually and dont necessary need grims (still they rely on damage).

[angelspawns]

Give Refess more debuff options. I'm loving my Gravan and Fortune. Openskills like RoyalGuard are great fun aswell.
There is more to say then only buffing yourself. You can get more tankier aswell by counterplaying the opponent.


Btw: Fail troll threat to my Falkow returning response. For snowball there are multiple units at work and multiple effects. There are multiple ways of using it, like ExBene turns Def into Atk, ChurchPala turns Atk into HP, Cynthia doubles Atk value on herself, etc. It's more then 1 trick; it has multiple tricks spread out over multiple units, used to accomplish multiple things.
But still, more diversity is good! Instead of focussing on the same lame thing (i hate Verlaat, same old Def + Atk raising) i want to DEbuff my opponent with other stuff then Carbuncles and select few TGC. Seeing the same road taken over and over again kinda leaves me questioning the creativity of the designers here. ;/

[Peralisc9001]

Refess has it's own playstyle. Thanks for pointing that out!

[GonFreeces31]

Give Refess more debuff options. I'm loving my Gravan and Fortune.

I'm glad you like Gravan! Back when we were working on that set I tried to promote alternatives to "mass buffing snowball" and get some more debuffing themes running with the TGC tribe. I think he was a step in the right direction, but there is way too much zzzz snowballing in Refess (in my opinion). I mean if you look at shrine knights, ex lap/solar, or carbuncles they all really play out exactly the same.

[GOSCAR]

Oh look Gon figured out those file types sorta play the same. Should we just tell him that Refess style was suppose to be units supporting each other? Or should we wait till he figures it out.

[Anima13]

LP protection. Refess is very card and due to tankiness lp saving. would fit in there.

eg: design a weak unit that has a start skill: If this unit havent been close for more then 3 turns, the next time your opponent izer into your ss, do not substract LP. this "effect" cannot be activated for the next 6 turns.

ITs basically also a new kind of effect that is directly applied to the izcer.

Together with such a unit:

low hp agi1 condition: its turn 30 for all skills:
start skill: : substract 3 lp from opponents lp,
auto skill: substract 3 lp from your opponents lp,
action skill: substract lp from you opponents lp.

[angelspawns]

LP protection sounds nice, the T30 insta win condition sounds abusable. I can make it very lame with alot of stalling.

@Gon; Yes, i like my Gravan very much. I too don't like the standard snowballing as much. I want to be creative or atleast use the buffs in a creative way. The reason I like TGC so much is because it snowballs in a unique way with HP. There's also access to a few counterplay options like -10Atk pinpoint & +10MHP to all & 0Rng & +30Def open... if only InquisitionNightRaider was a legit option instead of niche.
I actually suggested Gravan to have the counter pinpoint in the days instead of random. It's still here under Safiria's together with other TGC options. Hopefully some other suggestions in there will find its way up on the errata list aswell.