Ex Merm is OP

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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby AqvasFire2 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:59 am

Thorned may be better than Guardian standalone, but when you consider Guardian's solar kingdom and knight subtypes, that means she gets support from Aivault, Aliria (huge), Etoile (until she hits at 40), and Safiria. Thorned? Nope.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby Anima13 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:06 am

First : refess should gett something lawtia like, falkow like:
send unit to cemetery effects (mecriless) is lawtia: aano, Cathira, Alphonce (very good examples for lawtia like in refess), there are some others too mentioned in this thread.

But it gets even better refess is getting more and more falkow like things:
all the speedy units of last sets
SK is basically a field oriented falkow, super speedy, even buncles have many agi4 units
loock at the new ex buncle: It has pinpoint (falkow typical, antifalkow), agi control (falkowtypical, anitfalkow). and heal (refess) and openskill 1sp (new trend in refess, hurting falkow files by supporting to win the sp game).
Ex buncle not only collects many falkow-strenghs in one unit, it also one of the most clearest falkow hate cards concurring with shvara.

Noone can say refess doesnt ditch over good into other spheres (which is nice).


Then to DGs comment: you need to get rid of the idea to expect all spheres getting the same thing.
half of the spheres have no field concept at all:
If gowen gets a high hp unit it will have attack or agi, cause all gowen units are allround, Lawtia is a bit more difficult cause they are subtype wise swinging between fieldy and less fieldy, but even there a tank will be capable to do more then just tanking.
Refess is the sphere of tanks. It is trying to establish a filed by by stalling and surviving . Only controlling debuffers, "master buffers" or other vise control oriented units have low hp. Their tanks have a huge key role in making their files working at all, so no wonder they should have many good tanks.
and falkow.. falkow is a very tricky sphere, because unlike in refess falkows field is less allround, and have specialized units. Think about serpent: we have a super dmg dealer, we have tanks, a condition supporter/debuffer frog and an "increase synergy in file" synergy unit. Falkows field is the most diversly specified out of all spheres (thats why pinpoint in other spheres is anti falkow). So in falkow a tank has to tank and thats his main job.

Per se due to the differences in spheres, at least in 2 spheres the concept of "tank" doesnt make any sense at all. Of course there will be "tanky" units, but they dont need to have the role of a tank like in other spheres.

I absolutly agree that ex mermaid is fine as she is. But please dont argue it with "because other spheres should also get tanks like in refess", cause this argumetation is not exactly valid.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby AqvasFire2 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:47 am

Actually, Anima, every sphere needs tanks. Why? Because if you're overwhelmed on the field and get SP-locked reviving units, the game is just over. You lose. It's basically "I said good day, sir!"

I'm not saying that all spheres should have Refess-type counter tanks. But for every sphere to have at least one tank that makes someone press "rest" instead of just going "banzai!" and mindlessly pressing the attack button isn't too much to ask for, I don't think. Gowen Dilate used to be better at this, and now people call for nerfs on EXmerm. Yet for the longest time, Guardian, Vet Paladin, folrart hammer soldier, spined armadillo, and Phoenix chick fill this role perfectly well.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby GOSCAR » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:05 pm

Anima13 wrote:But it gets even better refess is getting more and more falkow like things:
all the speedy units of last sets
SK is basically a field oriented falkow, super speedy, even buncles have many agi4 units

Sk is not Falkow oriented. Refess is all about setting up a field that supports each other. SK is a clear example of it.

Also you make it sound like Refess just started getting fast units. It's always had them.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby Pikeru » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:26 am

AqvasFire2 wrote:Thorned may be better than Guardian standalone, but when you consider Guardian's solar kingdom and knight subtypes, that means she gets support from Aivault, Aliria (huge), Etoile (until she hits at 40), and Safiria. Thorned? Nope.

This is severely inaccurate. Battle Diva also shares the Knight subtype and can just as easily benefit from Aivault and other knight support. This only leaves the Solar Kingdom for Guardian.

It's very close-minded to say every sphere needs a tank unit. One that's highly offensively minded will find it out-of-place and frankly a hindrance to their strategy. This follows the old saying, "The best defense is a strong offense." Having said that, I see nothing wrong with the mermaid. She's not the first Falkow unit like this, both Song Staff Wielder and Manta Ray are attack immune as well. I won't even bother mentioning Mage Soldiers even though going dual-sphere is just as easy as mono-color.

I see no point beating around the bush. Clearly this thread is about reiterating the Dio problem. Afterall, her action skill is like playing 3 Sakura's in a single turn, just like Return is the same as dropping triple Pure Terror's all at once.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby DeeGee » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:04 am

It's not that Dio is OP--she's got level 1 stats, needs a crapton of SP to operate, some units to tank for her, and others to try and manipulate the field situation so that her return hits something important.

It's that she's boring. And in its purest form, so is Falkow, as is the blue faction in any TCG/CCG--it's the faction of "I get to respond to everything you do, so I'll let the insignificant stuff through and deal with it with the rest of my cards while anything else is going to get dealt with by some sort of lockout mechanic I have going". It's not fun to play, or fun to play against. And so long as there's going to be a strategy that can effectively tell the opponent "you don't get to play", people will whine, despite the fact that Alteil is generally terrible with counterplay mechanics no matter where you look.

As for "every sphere needs a tank", I suppose I misstated. What I meant was that every top tier file needs some sort of unit that in a low-unit-count, low-SP situation will survive and drain more cards and/or SP from the opponent than vice versa while you deploy your more interdependent units around it, such that when that third copy finally does kick the bucket, you have your main strategy set up and running and have hopefully prevented your opponent from doing the same.

Except that when Falkow gets such a unit, it doesn't set up a strategy that tries to fight you--oh no, that's inefficient. Instead, it sets up a strategy to just lock you down without fighting you, and at some point, you just fall behind the SP curve and stare at an underdeveloped field with your couple of units dying before they can take a turn to what amounts to some of the most insignificant damage in the game, on a raw basis.

But that's the nature of Falkow with its glass units with bomb action skills. So if someone doesn't like that, please propose a viable alternative.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:18 pm

I just want to reiterate Dio has never been overpowered in situations other than in combination with Bulerigid SS.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby DeeGee » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:28 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:I just want to reiterate Dio has never been overpowered in situations other than in combination with Bulerigid SS.


Bulerigid SS never was OP with Dio. Bulerigid SS did exactly what Bule SS was supposed to do, which is to be a symmetrical SS. If you know there's a Bule SS coming (and if they're playing Dio, you absolutely know it's there), then you can take advantage of that fact.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:29 pm

bump

The dio / ex merm / ex emana / mystere combos (along with other related gay combos) are top RP for a reason. Right now they enjoy taking a hefty crap on folrart.
As if folrart wasn't bad enough as it was and as if return wasn't abundant enough already.


Not saying nerf ex merm specifically, i am saying check out the top RP decks and readjust the cards immediately.
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Re: Ex Merm is OP

Postby Romdeau » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:09 pm

Dio and Mystere are both on my radar if it means anything. However, set 12 comes first before anything else.
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