A Quick View of EX 11

[GonFreeces31]

Most removal SSs are actually, in expectation, pretty bad. Once again, let's do some math.

Soul skill slot value: 2-3 SP (ceiling of 3 SP because of Orthos, Shvara, PoM, Lucia, floor of 2 SP thanks to witch/pixy dual wielder/etc.) Let's go with 2.5 SP
Set phase value: less for large files that can do lots of damage with one card, very valuable for files that depend on many units. Let's go with 1 SP.
Cost of activation/sacrificial grimoire/unit: 1 (miracle fruit/great spirit) or 2 (Oeste). Let's just go with 1.5 SP for round numbers.

a) Soul skill slot value is 2SP standard.
b) You need to distinguish between refundable and nonrefundable costs. Spirits cost 1 short term, 0 long term. miracle fruit costs 1 short and long term.
c) Your SP value on a set phase is totally arbitrary.

[Icyman2]

lol gon nailed it

[DeeGee]

Most removal SSs are actually, in expectation, pretty bad. Once again, let's do some math.

Soul skill slot value: 2-3 SP (ceiling of 3 SP because of Orthos, Shvara, PoM, Lucia, floor of 2 SP thanks to witch/pixy dual wielder/etc.) Let's go with 2.5 SP
Set phase value: less for large files that can do lots of damage with one card, very valuable for files that depend on many units. Let's go with 1 SP.
Cost of activation/sacrificial grimoire/unit: 1 (miracle fruit/great spirit) or 2 (Oeste). Let's just go with 1.5 SP for round numbers.

a) Soul skill slot value is 2SP standard.
b) You need to distinguish between refundable and nonrefundable costs. Spirits cost 1 short term, 0 long term. miracle fruit costs 1 short and long term.
c) Your SP value on a set phase is totally arbitrary.

a) 2 SP standard? So should dragon breath be doing 40 damage if asuet and distrier give 1 SP? Should a two-turn engage be 1 SP thanks to Emana?
b) In the long run, either you or your opponent is dead. Great spirits cost 1 SP short term, 1 LP long term. I'm putting 1 LP = 1 SP.
c) Was my valuation of a set phase too much? Clearly it's worth something, otherwise you could be locked the whole game, and so long as you had the SP, dump an entire field of units on the board and win, right? Wrong. The time value of set phases is worth something in SP. Punishment hole puts locking your opponent out of his entire file (75% of the time) at a 2 SP value. So between .5 and 1 SP for a set phase seems about right, according to punishment hole. Am I missing something?

[Callonia]

So that means Flash bolt should do 80 damage for 2 sp. DG argument is bad.

And instant revival should revive two units instead of 1.

Or give it the zagar's soul skill ability.

Soul skills is different from grimiores and units.

[DeeGee]

So that means Flash bolt should do 80 damage for 2 sp. DG argument is bad.

And instant revival should revive two units instead of 1.

Or give it the zagar's soul skill ability.

Soul skills is different from grimiores and units.

Instant revival is effectively anttila's SS, though I wouldn't mind combining IR and heal into one card.

[Anima13]

Most removal SSs are actually, in expectation, pretty bad. Once again, let's do some math.

Soul skill slot value: 2-3 SP (ceiling of 3 SP because of Orthos, Shvara, PoM, Lucia, floor of 2 SP thanks to witch/pixy dual wielder/etc.) Let's go with 2.5 SP
Set phase value: less for large files that can do lots of damage with one card, very valuable for files that depend on many units. Let's go with 1 SP.
Cost of activation/sacrificial grimoire/unit: 1 (miracle fruit/great spirit) or 2 (Oeste). Let's just go with 1.5 SP for round numbers.

a) Soul skill slot value is 2SP standard.
b) You need to distinguish between refundable and nonrefundable costs. Spirits cost 1 short term, 0 long term. miracle fruit costs 1 short and long term.
c) Your SP value on a set phase is totally arbitrary.

a) 2 SP standard? So should dragon breath be doing 40 damage if asuet and distrier give 1 SP? Should a two-turn engage be 1 SP thanks to Emana?
b) In the long run, either you or your opponent is dead. Great spirits cost 1 SP short term, 1 LP long term. I'm putting 1 LP = 1 SP.
c) Was my valuation of a set phase too much? Clearly it's worth something, otherwise you could be locked the whole game, and so long as you had the SP, dump an entire field of units on the board and win, right? Wrong. The time value of set phases is worth something in SP. Punishment hole puts locking your opponent out of his entire file (75% of the time) at a 2 SP value. So between .5 and 1 SP for a set phase seems about right, according to punishment hole. Am I missing something?

a, its about the "sp cost" of souls not grims. (souls value not equal to other cards value) also take note that all +3sp souls are conditional beside shvara which is in my opinion just pure power creep, but hey noone cared when i was whinning .(and now i dont care much either)
b, most files and especially falkow has the options to elude the issue of a lvl1 sacrifical costin 1 lp
c, I agree with you that a fixed setphase has a value. I tend to include this concept in my post currently so ppl understand that a turn is a resource. Yet messuring a setphase in sp is absolutly wrong access, you cannot mesure everything in sp. what is rather important that you can trade your setphases in field positions/or not. And that wasted sets can cost you games if you fight a deck that races agaisnt you in field positions (falkow).

[Khiruki]

Shvara has a conditional.

[Romdeau]

Rom,

I think the majority of SS that target more than one unit are random target. I was wondering what your opinion was about Rasam engage SS and whether it should also be random target or not?

My opinion of Rasam SS is that I've wanted to nerf it for the past several sets since its release. I think at the minimum it should be iczerable (add a disengaged clause)-if not that, then partially random as you say.

[DeeGee]

Rom,

I think the majority of SS that target more than one unit are random target. I was wondering what your opinion was about Rasam engage SS and whether it should also be random target or not?

My opinion of Rasam SS is that I've wanted to nerf it for the past several sets since its release. I think at the minimum it should be iczerable (add a disengaged clause)-if not that, then partially random as you say.

It *is* iczerable. If you iczer a Rasam SS, it's pretty devastating because that means all your units are dead and they only have one turn to benefit from it.

[Peralisc9001]

Assa SS is also devastating when it gets iczered. >_>

Anyways, i find it a bit awkward not only that any second deck in folrart has a rasam / engage SS, but also the fact that some decks need it to prevent iczer attacks and fight back vs a stronger field (due to removals).