suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Callonia » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:28 pm

Peralisc9001 wrote:It's such retardedly broken grim that infused the game with lame and boredom, that I didn't bother playing Lv 3 files at all for 8 full sets.
Right now just don't care, so I play them, but don't bother much with boring files, unless I am the one who plays returns. I like playing it because it's easy win, but lack some important falkow meta cards which are in fact impossible to get EX cards.


Isn't falkow EXs generally meh. You don't need EXs to get wins for falkow. Remember Falkow isn't refess lol.
EXs is optional for falkow. At least that's how i've seen it except for that EX wiz archer lvl 2 and ex lvl 2 wiz swordman and uh fovensta magic sword of glory.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:05 pm

Lv 2 ex wizard sword guy that revives for free can't be replaced by haste soldier. It's just not the same.
emana princess that super debuffs agility on start
EX mystere
oeste

All great EX part of the current top meta.
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:06 pm

Falkow just has win conditions that lead to people whining. Lawtia wins all the time riding the back of undeads, shades, and death embraces, but people don't whine about that nearly as much, despite the fact that lawtia generally consistently has more successful file archetypes than Falkow.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Pikeru » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:48 pm

Maybe they don't state sp drain's imbalance as much as return's, but it is a close second. These are the 2 most talked about OP mechanics for very good reason. Years of player concerns and statistics placing Return and Shade as top 2 most played cards don't lie. The fact that people still try defend these effects grows more absurd each time.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby DeeGee » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:51 pm

Pikeru wrote:Maybe they don't state sp drain's imbalance as much as return's, but it is a close second. These are the 2 most talked about OP mechanics for very good reason. Years of player concerns and statistics placing Return and Shade as top 2 most played cards don't lie. The fact that people still try defend these effects grows more absurd each time.


And there's an easy answer as to why: because if your opponent is also playing a low-SP file, then it's an even match. But if they're trying to play high-SP solitaire, you have an advantage. In any case:

This game is not a do-what-you-want-and-I-do-what-I-want solitaire-fest. Enforcing a low SP environment is what you call counterplay.

DEAL WITH IT.


Thank you.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Icyglare » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:09 pm

Pikeru wrote:Maybe they don't state sp drain's imbalance as much as return's, but it is a close second. These are the 2 most talked about OP mechanics for very good reason. Years of player concerns and statistics placing Return and Shade as top 2 most played cards don't lie. The fact that people still try defend these effects grows more absurd each time.


Must be why Urgant files are so hated upon, the best of both worlds
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby DeeGee » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:20 pm

Icyglare wrote:
Pikeru wrote:Maybe they don't state sp drain's imbalance as much as return's, but it is a close second. These are the 2 most talked about OP mechanics for very good reason. Years of player concerns and statistics placing Return and Shade as top 2 most played cards don't lie. The fact that people still try defend these effects grows more absurd each time.


Must be why Urgant files are so hated upon, the best of both worlds


Except Urgrant files get utterly crushed by SP drain. If you drain all but 1 SP, Urgrant can't drain you. If you drain all the SP, he can't even raise sphere level! And even if you can't drain all the SP, if you spend your SP, that rapier is probably just going to overkill something. Couple it with Lawtia's undeads, and Urgrant is a punching bag.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:29 pm

I say we ignore returns and nerf urgrant just for lulz same as we did with EX prim.
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:38 pm

The main problem here tho is that if you nerfed return, entire tribes would no longer be competitive. Some people would rejoice at that - never having to see Mermaids or WK again for instance. But then you would have to wonder why a game would have an entire sphere, over 50% of which would be unplayable. That just doesn't make sense.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Pikeru » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:48 pm

DeeGee wrote:[b]This game is not a do-what-you-want-and-I-do-what-I-want solitaire-fest.

I completely agree wholeheartedly and this is the exact problem with return and sp drain. Example 1: Player A bounces player B's whole field, player B has no field and player A then plays by himself. Example 2: Player A drains player B's sp, player B can't play cards and so player A plays by himself. Play a big file, sp drain and assassin screws you. Play a small file, return screws you. In other words, there are no counters. Traditional Yugioh and Vintage MTG are both more balanced, counters do truly exist in those games rather than imaginary concepts here.
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