suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby DeeGee » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:55 pm

Pikeru wrote:
DeeGee wrote:This game is not a do-what-you-want-and-I-do-what-I-want solitaire-fest.

I completely agree wholeheartedly and this is the exact problem with return and sp drain. Example 1: Player A bounces player B's whole field, player B has no field and player A then plays by himself. Example 2: Player A drains player B's sp, player B can't play cards and so player A plays by himself. Play a big file, sp drain and assassin screws you. Play a small file, return screws you. In other words, there are no counters. Traditional Yugioh and Vintage MTG are both more balanced, counters do truly exist in those games rather than imaginary concepts here.


Except that's a ridiculous exaggeration. You can't bounce a "whole field" with returns, unless you're playing Diondora control. And you can't SP drain all of someone's SP. Shade gives you at most a 1 SP advantage. Exchange of souls is AT MOST a 1 SP advantage (1 SP for the grim, 1 SP unit sacrificed, drain 3). Death's embrace is AT MOST even.

Returning a level 3 unit is an SP [b]trade.

It's just that your SP is tied up reviving and setting units, because you wanted to play a high unit count (read: high SP) game and Lwatia/Falkow said "no".
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Pikeru » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:08 pm

Cyclone. Fierte. Zu-jyuva. Moonlight Princess/Eskatia+Mad Priest. Sorry, I don't see what I'm exaggerating?
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby LoneKnight » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:10 pm

I have never-ever seen a successful SP lockdown deck and I have been playing for a couple years now. The best you can manage is landing 1-2 shades and a gafc.

A return lockdown can be achieved, but not with just grims, as those are a limited resource.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Callonia » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:27 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:The main problem here tho is that if you nerfed return, entire tribes would no longer be competitive. Some people would rejoice at that - never having to see Mermaids or WK again for instance. But then you would have to wonder why a game would have an entire sphere, over 50% of which would be unplayable. That just doesn't make sense.



Ha, I like mermaids and WK. Its just that they dependant on crutches called Return spam. They're cool and all but, Return? Not cool enough for me. I tried to return spam but found it dang boring and yawnsville oh something I can't handle and didn't totally anticipate? Return it and solve the problem for me.

Only times I enjoy using return is when its on a unit like Legyre, go figure. Dunno why.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:34 pm

LoneKnight wrote:I have never-ever seen a successful SP lockdown deck and I have been playing for a couple years now. The best you can manage is landing 1-2 shades and a gafc.

A return lockdown can be achieved, but not with just grims, as those are a limited resource.

I locked down demo's pirates with SP drain, probably because he wasn't expecting it. :lol:

It's not a strong file, but you can check it for yourself if you like. There was living armor instead of veteran woman. I sort of gave up on playing this. Occasionally go into folrart and it's either a hit or miss since you can't be always sure your opponent will or won't have SP idling around.

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I think he even said "please stop draining me!" at some point. :lol: (well he said it as a joke i think, but it's amusing nonetheless)


With return it's different. The level 3 is either played or on the field and you thus know for sure next turn you can drop a return on it.
On the other hand SP might or might not be there next turn.
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby DeeGee » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:39 pm

Yeah it was a joke. In fact, if I had to camp pirates, something packing a couple of NWW would be the first thing I'd think of, since level 4 Falkow just loooooves it's floating SP. No, well played, or well chosen in the file stage anyway >.>...hey, that's the nature of the game.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby skillll7 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:05 am

LoneKnight wrote:I have never-ever seen a successful SP lockdown deck and I have been playing for a couple years now. The best you can manage is landing 1-2 shades and a gafc.

A return lockdown can be achieved, but not with just grims, as those are a limited resource.


I used this nifty file combining returns and SP drain once. Urgrant and Nightmare Given Form let me lock down completely with the opponent managing 0 SP per turn with no cards on the field and exactly 0 SP. It was a cruel world. Needless to say I won those games once I've achieved that state. I just quickened the pace with Owl Sage and just iczered to victory.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Icyman2 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:19 am

So you're suggesting eskatia urgrant and returns? Sounds great.
Also dg wtf are you talking about. Bigs and pirates don't go together.
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby CainHyde » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:35 am

Peralisc9001 wrote:Lv 2 ex wizard sword guy that revives for free can't be replaced by haste soldier. It's just not the same.
emana princess that super debuffs agility on start
EX mystere
oeste

All great EX part of the current top meta.

...WAT?
Did I somehow miss the release of Emana EX and never saw EX Emana at all after all this time. :V

Pera, Emana have no EX version in USA at all.
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There is no stopping it.
That in itself is salvation."
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Re: suggestion regarding a change in return mechanic

Postby Peralisc9001 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:59 pm

I want to congratulate smallfish on his blue star. It has been long since i've seen one in alteil us!

That's the spirit smallfish! If i had your deck i'd also play it till the arena bleeds. Keep going and i wish you best of luck! (i might still get angry and stall vs you)
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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