Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby Icyglare » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:35 pm

DeeGee wrote:The nerf did not make RFA equal. Can you grimbane any of the other SSs?



Yea, you can. Grimbane engaging grims like soul bind so they can't use Invisible Druid SS

But Icyglare, you can use Shelby with it

And you can use Regus Engineer with RFA. If a Soul is too risky for you, look at alternatives.
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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby DeeGee » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:40 pm

Icyglare wrote:
DeeGee wrote:The nerf did not make RFA equal. Can you grimbane any of the other SSs?



Yea, you can. Grimbane engaging grims like soul bind so they can't use Invisible Druid SS

But Icyglare, you can use Shelby with it

And you can use Regus Engineer with RFA. If a Soul is too risky for you, look at alternatives.


Except you forget the number one reason why people went to Shelby in the first place.

Engage grims.

If Regus engineer also disengaged a target unit, even then it wouldn't be worth it. Why? Because with Shelby, you get a bonus one-turn engage on the unit you don't remove. The comparison isn't even close.
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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby Callonia » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:00 pm

I used an lvl 3 unit to assassinate Ryu the Mage Knight of OPness. I think it won me the duel because falkow abuser's field suffered for it for 2 turns.

3SP! And I revived that unit at least once so 4 sp!

Removal souls is really powerful I'm glad RFA don't have a free ride anymore.
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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby Icyglare » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:40 pm

Every removal SS is going to have an issue of some kind, Use something else DG (not hard right?)
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<-- http://www.youtube.com/AlteilReplays -->

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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby DeeGee » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:46 pm

Icyglare wrote:Every removal SS is going to have an issue of some kind, Use something else DG (not hard right?)


Except why should they? There's only one sphere in this game that really suffers from them. Falkow and Lawtia love low-SP, low unit-count environments. Gowen can make do just fine if they don't resort to deliberately bad tribal nonsense (hi, Merc nation!). Why exactly should we balance all of the removal SSs (and for that matter, returns) around one sphere?
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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby Icyglare » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:54 pm

Why should they balance things? I don't know, you got me there
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<-- http://www.youtube.com/AlteilReplays -->

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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby DeeGee » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:02 am

Read the whole question. The entire game is being warped in favor of one type of strategy: tribal rushes. Yeah I understand there are some factions in this game, and they should be represented and such, but organic rushes have basically become a thing of the past. Removal SSs countered them. Now? Buncles, mage soldiers, WK, maybe a little Beltorat here and there...either you play tribal, or you play anti-tribal. What ever happened to organic rushes?
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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby Icyglare » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:18 am

I read the whole question and my statement still stands. Play your mid-big Gowen if you like, you don't have to go tribal/anti-tribal.
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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby gadu » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:19 am

When I think about every grim that creates an SP difference amongst the players, almost all are designed so that the difference is never greater than 1 SP. The only ones I can think of that aren't are BD (which powercreeps the hell out of Heartbreak) and Stronghold (which takes it from spheres). It's clear that the designers were very cautious about playing cards that create large differences in SP.

So I can't help but ask why is it okay that SS removals are designed to create massive SP difference amongst players on top of a significant field advantage? The fact that the designers have this double standard and think it's properly balanced is a travesty.

The most fair designed removal SS is something like Volksfied (and lo and behold it's the one that I never see used).

Rom, if you could share your thoughts about this, I'd appreciate it.
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Re: Why removal SSs generally stink. Warning: arithmetic!

Postby GonFreeces31 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:28 am

gadu wrote:When I think about every grim that creates an SP difference amongst the players, almost all are designed so that the difference is never greater than 1 SP. The only ones I can think of that aren't are BD (which powercreeps the hell out of Heartbreak) and Stronghold (which takes it from spheres). It's clear that the designers were very cautious about playing cards that create large differences in SP.

So I can't help but ask why is it okay that SS removals are designed to create massive SP difference amongst players on top of a significant field advantage? The fact that the designers have this double standard and think it's properly balanced is a travesty.

If you use RFA + fruit or Raste it costs a net 2SP to return a unit. Sometimes this will be an even 2 for 2 trade. In many cases verse a level 3 rush you gain 1SP. Verse higher level units you obviously gain more. This doesn't seem absurd to me. Mid and bigs have lots of cards (charity, sheer winds) they can use to dodge these removals and removals can also backfire by being iczered or the occasional case where you return your own unit.

I can't tell if you're serious or not but I mean do you honestly think stuff like Metia or Ladol are OP or something?
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