Buffs Gone Wild

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Buffs Gone Wild

Postby gadu » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:51 pm

In the past, I played Guardian and she survived at least two turns! Today I find it common that she's dead in one turn.

I replaced her with Blessed Armor thinking that 30 DEF might help him live for at least two turns.

Nope.

Then I tried Curse on the World. Surely 100 HP and 10 DEF... one of the best tanks the game has to offer can protect me? ROFL, I wish I could show replays. The best one was where Curse got one-shot KO, then I used the Eternal Refess Traitor to revive him, only so he could be put down for the second time that turn after taking two more hits.

Lesson of the story: In Alteil, the best defense is a devastating offense. The most true maxim is kill or be killed.

As DG has said, the game has become a bash fest of who can field the most one hit killers or even better, one hit multi-killers.

Not long ago, I saw the strongest defensive file I've ever seen: pre-nerfed Mid Refess. Those guys could take a hit from almost anything and say **** you. As expected, they were promptly nerfed in record time.

Rom also stated that Miffy is expected to get a second nerf. Poor Miffy. Where were the QQ threads about 70 HP Mercenary Nation without too much effort generating 1 SP per turn, while giving permanent buffs to ATT & DEF, and being able to attack at the same time (sound familiar)? Maybe the lack of a Verlaat counterpart kept her off the nerf radar.

Before we have ourselves a good old fashioned QQ war, the main point of this post is about how the game has continued evolving into a bash fest where only the most offensively devastating units survive. That's what I'd like to discuss.

The only file I can think of where this doesn't apply is Dio/Mystere control; seemingly the most hated file of Alteil.

If a naive new player asked you "What is the key to success in this game?" what would you say?

I would show the new player that I have 5 files that have 90% or higher win percentage after at least 20 matches and the characteristics they all have in common is that they have units that can kill in one hit and they have removals.

As Angelspawn explains, cards that provide instant solutions to all your problems. As soon as I try to make a file that doesn't go along these lines, the win percentage plummets to 50% or less.

To me, this says a lot about the state of Alteil and it makes me sad.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Romdeau » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:00 am

Sorry, we like things to happen. If you want to build an impenetrable wall of rofl it's just not gonna happen. We have and are going to continue to give players more options to bypass giant walls-because nobody likes to feel powerless to get around a tank.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby gadu » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:14 am

Hi Rom,

I don't care much for walls either. I just think that the purpose of bringing out Guardian or Curse on the World is so that they can survive for one turn, but they cannot. I understand now what kind of design you are trying to make. Thanks for your reply.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby GonFreeces31 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:47 am

I'm not sure it's really healthy for the game if Guardian is getting 1-shot. That creates a whole number of problems. One of the reasons I really dislike that new crest unit that easily gets 100 attack. Rom I'm not sure that's a view you really want to be endorsing...
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Callonia » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:56 am

So its okay for Refess to feel powerless because they can't fight back because they they have die in gentle breeze.

There is impenetrable walls in jp alteil. And for some reason, its a raging success.

I fought some guy today, he drops verlaat x3, lumiriax3, lvl 4 miffyx3, phoenix chickx3, folrart guardianx3, etiolex3 and that lvl 3 girlx3 which let you spam flash bolts on field at same time.

I pwnt him using a silly merc nation file with no problems at all while Archer Scout was sp genning for the whole time until she got killed by a flash bolt.

I can just dish out what 800 damage in a turn lulz and he who shall not be named still thinks merc nation too weak. And I didn't use any grims in the file at all.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Icyglare » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:01 am

Well, amazing tear down of walls has happened since Rapier Fencer, 70-90dmg just destroyed files that brought guardian early.
For a large amount of various Alteil Replays, try youtube link

<-- http://www.youtube.com/AlteilReplays -->

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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Pikeru » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:48 am

Not hard to beat mid-refess with merc nation considering Greg 1-shots the whole front row regardless of HP or Def.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Callonia » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:16 am

Pikeru wrote:Not hard to beat mid-refess with merc nation considering Greg 1-shots the whole front row regardless of HP or Def.


I didn't use Merc Nation, no exs, rarest card in my file is at most a 3*. And no grimiores whatsoever.

Only exceptions is two EXs that i put in the SS lineup for lulz.

Merc Nations has it all, Snowballing, start skills, engaging, action skills where it matters, pinpointers, powerful lvl 1 units, and low lvl units with opens that matter.

Rifleman knight and its 50 damage is too juicy, and unbuffed, can do 100 damage on charge. and its lvl 1 :P

Oh and mustn't forget, merc nation have rank ups which enable the units to hold onto the field while alone. Well i'm already looking forward to the buff that heierrat sniper might get. Dun know what buff it is but apparenlty will get. It already oneshots miffyre, and 60 hp lvl 4 support units and you can pinpoint as long as snipe is shooting at the characters not units. Which means DG already have an answer to miffyre and DG just ignored it in his crusade to murder refess sphere.

The lvl 1 lockout doesn't really bother me because I'm not that dependent on having lvl 1s on field. Assassinating a unit still works exactly the same even when level of your unit is 2 and up. An assassination is a assassination lol. If i'm lucky enough, I can pull off up to max of 4 assassinations rofl. So far, i've achieved only 2.

I think Heierrat Field Commander could argubly be better than Ex Lapierre in a way, its a lvl 3 support unit with 70 hp, and snowballs while generating you 1 sp. While allowing one of your units to be disengaged that disengaged unit can fight twice in one turn. Oh and it's not EX!

Heierrat Knight is a early protoype version of Black Knight that currently exists in JP Alteil for solar kingdom lol.

U see, black knight is a lvl 4 refess knight in solar kingdom with an auto of healing for 25% of its hp every turn. While having an Action skill that costs 1sp which does Atk+df = damage to one enemy unit. Something like that. I recall having that action skill strike a enemy unit for like 100 damage or something xD

Oh and Its not all woe and doom for refess though. Lumira, while u guys might not realize it but, she's an early version of Ishtar albeit bad ishtar because of 1 agi. But with mermaid princess I was able to slowly bring lumira to agi 4 and attack like 4 times in one turn with lumira lol. And i'm sorta finding myself liking Gun god ben. He fights like refess lol.

Solar kingdom suffers really alot from lacking an nonsquishy lvl 3 unit that discourages enemy units from attacking or attack anyways and take damage for it.
Folrart Greatsword Soldier was the first movement i saw into fixing this issue. Used her with Folrart paladin, I think its about as decent as it goes. Problem probably is they're too passive.
Feline Kin Knight even when field's empty i have her use her action skill so that enemy will be forced to deal with her or eat an engage. She got hit and prioritized with merciless death/deathmaker twice in a single duel over a buffer! :P It greatly amused me to see powerful grimiores being expended on an "mere" frontline attacker.


Oh and I found an translation error in high priestess.. one word in it is spelled beleivers when it should be spelled believers.

I think people that wants a kewl lvl 3 solar kingdom rush probably will have to wait til next set because focus for solar kingdom on this set seems to be mid refess.

Impenetrable wall isn't needed but, a tough wall is needed. An good example probably would be the ones where I had an enjoyable Ridrea vs BKR duels back when BKR was everywhere. I usually won because I was facing people who spammed bkr which is facing their first lvl 4 refess rush file opponent so they didn't know what to do. Very good example of this can be found in my duel against blacksunrx, he salamandered Aivault out of all units! Maximum defense in my lvl 4 refess rushes is usually like around 10 defense and that's it. maybe 20 if i'm using an ex lapierre variant.

Another issue is that it seems like Solar kingdom tend to uh, lose 16-20 units just to beat their opponents. Good example can be found in bkr vs ridrea duels and lvl 3 solar kingdom rush vs urgrant :P Mainly because enemy units get more attack power than the maximum hp values. It fights more of through wearing the opponent down and thinking. Its fun. Looks like a war is going on.

oops i accidently rambled. whatever posting now.



Edit: This myth of impenetrable tank wall needs to stop. To defeat Sergis even when you don't have return the almighty god of tribal files.. Is to halt attacking! Just stand there and snowball bit and then Sergis will run to his mommy and cry. because you see, Sergis is passive, he only can snowball if you keep on striking him with attacks that only wound. Yes even when you're tossing out epic blows like 100 damage a hit it is moot because you're refusing to let up the barrage of attack and Sergis thrives in such a enviroment because you're hot headed.

The most my sergis took in a single turn was like 600 damage in set 5 from six opposing zombies being buffed every turn by broken priest while sergis only kept up because of garfath+ opponent refusal to stop doing this ----> Image. Only for the opponent to realize that if they tried to open the door inward instead of outward it would open!

While i had like pegasus knights and lapierre and garfath cowering behind sergis because of zombie's amazing snowball. i only could do like what 150 damage in return if I use slash on lapierre and pegasus knight. No sergis can't attack, he must standby to survive the onslaught! I regret that no replays was available back then. Theater mode didn't exist!
Last edited by Callonia on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby CainHyde » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:59 am

GonFreeces31 wrote:I'm not sure it's really healthy for the game if Guardian is getting 1-shot. That creates a whole number of problems. One of the reasons I really dislike that new crest unit that easily gets 100 attack. Rom I'm not sure that's a view you really want to be endorsing...

Don't you start this again.
You are pointing on the wrong card if you want to start complain about OHKO cannon.
Go pick a card that existed from earlier set first.

@Call: There are reason why I don't want to touch any Gowen files except Pixie, and maybe during tournament.
Compared to other spheres, they have a lot card that far far better than the other sphere until lately.
I seriously laugh everytime I hear Gowen QQ.

@Gadu:
What card are you talking about?
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Pikeru » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:20 am

Callonia wrote:Merc Nations has it all, Snowballing, start skills, engaging, action skills where it matters, pinpointers, powerful lvl 1 units, and low lvl units with opens that matter.

Oh and mustn't forget, merc nation have rank ups which enable the units to hold onto the field while alone. Well i'm already looking forward to the buff that heierrat sniper might get. Dun know what buff it is but apparenlty will get. It already oneshots miffyre, and 60 hp lvl 4 support units and you can pinpoint as long as snipe is shooting at the characters not units. Which means DG already have an answer to miffyre and DG just ignored it in his crusade to murder refess sphere.


I think Heierrat Field Commander could argubly be better than Ex Lapierre in a way, its a lvl 3 support unit with 70 hp, and snowballs while generating you 1 sp. While allowing one of your units to be disengaged that disengaged unit can fight twice in one turn. Oh and it's not EX!

Snowballing, guess it's time DG starts hating on Gowen now too. Although, that causes a paradox since it's his lovechild+mistress. Better off we not discuss the problems in that.

Not only is Commander not EX, she was completely free. Practically everyone has a playset of her with only few exceptions: very new players, people who chose to not do the event and those who recycled her.
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