Buffs Gone Wild

Everything that doesn't go anywhere else.

Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Scientiafide » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:50 pm

Callonia wrote:
Scientiafide wrote:Also, everyone's getting on Rom's case, but he's right. He's not saying, "Let's give people tools to make walls useless and obsolete" but rather, "let's give people tools to tear down walls so that the match becomes a struggle on both sides." Ultimately, it's more fun that way. If one's strategy revolves around a strong defense (ie usually refess), it should be that side's objective to ensure the strategy goes off and to maintain that strategy against enemy disruption.


He could have worded it better but he went DG's route.

And this forum is tired of DG short of few fans that DG somehow have.

Also, I like how replay showing magic greatsword dude with 90 atk by as early as turn 4 or something has the deniers fleeing for the seven seas.


You're serious about that replay? I thought you were trolling, considering it was against an NPC. Nevertheless, that file you built is a bad file, it doesn't make any sense for WK to use owl sage as a first SS. That file would get eaten alive by pretty much any other lvl 3 rush.

Anyway no one pointed it out, but I'm gonna say I was wrong about Crest Blitz swordsman (Icy was correct in bringing it up). I read that as per turn (which I think is how it should be) as opposed to a permanent buff. The fact that crest blitz swordsman is actually better than a free revive (since a free revive doesn't give you +1 sp when it dies) + the fact that it can oneshot anything is probably a bit too strong. Iirc that's the main reason Magic doll augmented's close was nerfed (and yes I realize it was due to the interaction with overdose)?
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby gadu » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:55 pm

Science,

I'll clarify. OHKO may not apply, but the idea of your not units surviving for a turn still can apply. Mid-Refess snowballs fast enough and Verlaat picks up the slack. EN field wipe with ease and most have removals. Worthing's rush isn't lacking in power hitters.

Undead do not close so they will always get their (buffed) damage off while making opponents attacks useless when they recover from cemetary; they don't deal with the same problems other cards have (and you may recall a certain player going down in the World Championship due to something that was akin to a 100 ATT, 10 AGI Ex Cak.) Oh and let me guess, you use pixy-shrine SS? Btw, ever face Fisher's undeads; how did that go? I know Callonia trolled him hard with Fairy Blessing.

As for removals, do you need them? No.

Do they sometimes backfire? Sure.

Can you beat an opponent who is using removals? Of course.

Is it fair? This gets to the heart of matter. Why doesn't shade drain 2 SP?
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Callonia » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:21 am

Coz people were saying its impossible for magic greatsword to get 90 atk very fast. All I did was show that its perfectly capable and will troll solar kingdom decks easily.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Scientiafide » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:33 pm

gadu wrote:Science,

I'll clarify. OHKO may not apply, but the idea of your not units surviving for a turn still can apply. Mid-Refess snowballs fast enough and Verlaat picks up the slack. EN field wipe with ease and most have removals. Worthing's rush isn't lacking in power hitters.

Undead do not close so they will always get their (buffed) damage off while making opponents attacks useless when they recover from cemetary; they don't deal with the same problems other cards have (and you may recall a certain player going down in the World Championship due to something that was akin to a 100 ATT, 10 AGI Ex Cak.) Oh and let me guess, you use pixy-shrine SS? Btw, ever face Fisher's undeads; how did that go? I know Callonia trolled him hard with Fairy Blessing.

As for removals, do you need them? No.

Do they sometimes backfire? Sure.

Can you beat an opponent who is using removals? Of course.

Is it fair? This gets to the heart of matter. Why doesn't shade drain 2 SP?


So hold on, gadu what exactly are you complaining about? First you complain that you need units that can oneshot and removals in order to win, and now you're saying you don't need removals, and the problem is that units don't survive for more than a turn? Well what do you expect? Who wants to play a game where both sides have 4+ units on each side and no one dies on either side? Matches would take forever. In fact, I'd say that any unit that can consistently survive an assault from the entire enemy's field (in terms of core units) while retaliating is horribly op, so why is it a problem that tanks can be killed in a turn? I'd say a unit that can take 2-3 hits while retaliating 1-3 times is already pretty strong in my book (guardian). At this point I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about, since you've mentioned field wipes, one-hit ko units, and snowballing as problems. You either want units to be more durable or to hit for less (making matches take longer), you want tanks to be more durable (when they can already at the least take a couple more hits than the average unit), or you seem to have a problem with the fact files need to have some sort of offensive potential to win (when the victory condition in the game requires you to kill the enemy's units).

As for my undeads, the file I've been winning with does not use pixy-shrine SS. I'm not sure why that was brought up anyway since it's not removal. When I play undead my units rarely get up there in attack or agi, in fact often times some of them remain at 30-40 attack. But the point still stands, you don't need the specific strategy you mentioned to win. In fact, what you mentioned is really more of a falkow style of play (isolate and destroy), there are tons of other strategies that work just as well.

As for removals, I'm confident any lvl 3 rush can beat a file that uses removals. The same applies to any big file and any mid file that's not refess. Refess could definitely use more tools to fight these units since what's currently available is rather hard to come by.

Callonia,

The argument that was being made is not one of speed, but of resources. It often costs a lot to get greatsword's attack up there.

There are also lots of problems with the file you listed. For one, using owl sage to increase greatsword's attack is useless against most lvl 3 rushes out there and all lvl 2 rushes. These file types will destroy the file you showed in the replay, and they're the most common files that are played. I also doubt any self-respecting refess player would activate the enemy's SS so early (an NPC of course would never know better), so the point is kind of moot to begin with.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby gadu » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:08 pm

Science,

What I've written is very simple, but you do not understand. I'm not going to hold your hand and spoon feed you another commentary until you get it without misinterpretation.

I've already said everything I wanted to say about this subject more than once so this thread can fade into oblivion now.
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Re: Buffs Gone Wild

Postby Scientiafide » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:02 pm

gadu wrote:Science,

What I've written is very simple, but you do not understand. I'm not going to hold your hand and spoon feed you another commentary until you get it without misinterpretation.

I've already said everything I wanted to say about this subject more than once so this thread can fade into oblivion now.


I was giving you the benefit of the doubt for you to better explain your position, because my interpretation for what you've written was that you don't know what you're talking about and you just like to complain (ie I was being polite); either that, or you just don't like to admit you're wrong so you resort to mocking. It's kind of trivial really, I mean who cares if you're wrong? No one's infallible.

But maybe you're right, maybe it's better to close this topic since the problem you've supposedly identified with this game doesn't really exist. There's no point in talking about make-believe problems.
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