Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby gadu » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:53 am

Callonia wrote:
ForgotPassNotWorking wrote:
Callonia wrote:*.*

lol you only learn the hard way or what?


I don't quite understand what you mean.


Amusing.

I also enjoyed reading this:

kirk22 wrote:
gadu wrote: The errata had very little effect on the meta and some good cards I like were made not good.


Oh yes. Because past erratas have completely altered the meta. With maybe one or two exceptions, I can't think of any errata'd cards that have had any major impact on the meta. And what good cards got changed? Mermaid Human Archer? Yea, she was so good that practically no one was using her. Thats the sign of a great card right there.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Icyglare » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:03 am

kirk22 wrote:Oh yes. Because past erratas have completely altered the meta. With maybe one or two exceptions, I can't think of any errata'd cards that have had any major impact on the meta. And what good cards got changed? Mermaid Human Archer? Yea, she was so good that practically no one was using her. Thats the sign of a great card right there.


Then you must be new around here (or just forgot everything that happened), my personal list of errata'd cards that affected How much people play the card (negatively/positively)

Star Dragon
DanDan
Mirelia
True Retear
Summer
All of DEFS
Primrose
Jack Winston
Emana
Gaiessoul
RFA SS
Afeemina SS
All of pixies
Giant Squid

Good changes that were made with cards that are still played
Nue
Bringer
Magic Doll Augmented
Phoenix Chick

Good changes but not being played (that much)
Reborn Astaforse


Mermaid Archer was step childed at first because you didn't know if it went into a grim count file or mermaid file. (I played it in grim count, Gadu played it in mermaid) but now it's purely mermaid. I'm sure a reason why people don't play it is people don't like to play 40hp units past Lv3.

No matter how large the card pool, don't expect all cards to be universally fit for your file. You're gonna get (1)(G) 2/2 Bears sometimes.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby gadu » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:12 am

Icyglare wrote:
Mermaid Archer was step childed at first because you didn't know if it went into a grim count file or mermaid file. (I played it in grim count, Gadu played it in mermaid) but now it's purely mermaid. I'm sure a reason why people don't play it is people don't like to play 40hp units past Lv3.

No matter how large the card pool, don't expect all cards to be universally fit for your file. You're gonna get (1)(G) 2/2 Bears sometimes


8-)

Where does this one go Icy; Mercenary Nation, Assassain, Poison, other?

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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Icyglare » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:05 am

All of the above!

Go Proxy(Animus) then either Stronghold or Gowen/Lawtia Moxy.
Right away or later on...
Use Light Heieratt Fighter then use Heieratt Assassin's Open if applicable (reverse order or don't have SP free if this is not possible)
Light Fighter is the best way for Assassin to take advantage of it's start.
If you no longer need Lawtia Spheres, start Breath of Deading away!
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby kirk22 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:04 am

I'll admit I wasn't here for a number of those.

So how many errata'd cards are still never used/have ceased to see use?
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby LoneKnight » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:33 am

EX:Prim is the big one imo.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby angelspawns » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:31 am

There have been good changes like Icyglare mentioned.
Nerfs:
Mirelia
True Retear Aura (<-the grimoire)
Elitefencer & Serpent
Jack Winston
Emana
Gaiessoul
RFA SS
Afeemina SS
All of pixies
Nue
Bringer
Magic Doll Augmented
Phoenix Chick
Overdose
Forest Rhino
Dilate


Buffs:
Dandan
Reborn Astaforse
Giant Squid


I disargee with:
Primrose <- because she's made unplayable. Her original function, a setup for cyclone, was bad for gameplay. As such she needed a total redesign. I'm content with never seeing her face again though, just for the bad memories and impact she had on this game.

Errata is a strange thing. The psychological effect is sometimes bigger then the actual nerf/buff and don't do justice to the card. This is particulairy true for nerfs. It's almost as if people were waiting for an excuse to stop using it, and in a blink a card dissapears from the radar (like Forest Rhino).
When it comes to buffs you expect to see an opposite reaction. A card that has long not been touched should recieve a renewed spark of interest.
This is my beef with current errata's. To also answer kirks question: Too many go unused and Logress already expressed his regret in the past. Buffs generaly didn't have the most desired impact in Folrart. There seems to be alot of trouble making cards desirable enough to see more play.

I'm glad Icyglare decided to explain their thoughts on some of them. For me however this didn't shine new light upon things. I'm fully aware how to use ExGarfath. I'm fully aware how to utilize Orthos cem removal to its best advantage. I've played them and tried about all the niche things and combo's. And in the files i've played them i encountered difficulties this errata didn't adress.
Just to clarify using an Orthos file as an example with Bulerigid & MiffySS. Your goal is to put your enemy in the cemetery and then clear that cemetery. This new change basically tells you not to put things in the cem or the start won't work? It's counterproductive with his task. It doesn't improve Orthos to the point it convinces me to use him.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby sunbunman » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:18 am

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=14316

^ Orthos buff defended, what happens when u qq less and play more
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby angelspawns » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:00 am

Uhm... You created the IDEAL situation to get countered. There are no better circumstances for the Orthos player then a guy not building a field for the first few turns... And then start with an Agi4 unit! (that also loses the startskill roll twice in a row)

Then you have a Leviathan that quite honestly is in a very bad matchup because there's nothing below 2 agi to return, and you already allowed him to build an entire field with his miffy.


The guy had the time of his life. I wish he was here to tell us how often he could roam so freely with his 1400RP.
Luckily for him he catches a high RP player & file comletely offguard who plays straight into his hand, turn by turn. That person was you. Imagine how often he encounters an opponent that lets him build field, and then starts with an Agi4? Allows him to put in BKR, Catira, Dilate, Orthos, Judie etc. together in a match? How often will he see bigs brought in one by one, all with 4+Agi and so little firepower. (only Rasam does damage and Leviathan is not encounting for much more then a tank)

He beat you, but you know aswell as i do you encountered one of those oddball files. It loses a crapton more then it wins, and outside that one match it's just a 1400RP file. I'm not saying this in a qq way. I'll admit if a replay shows Orthos being buffed, but truely, there are replays where Orthos encounters a lvl2 rush in his previous state that are far more convincing. What do you think that replay proved? That in an off-chance it can engage an Agi4 unit?
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Scientiafide » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:31 pm

Overall I found this errata to be pretty good. I personally have just a few questions though over certain cards.

1) Why was folrart shield knight's buff so underwhelming? This buff is basically saying the card is fine as is, when it seems like most of the community is in agreement the card is underpowered.

2) Why was overdose nerfed? I never really saw this card as a problem card. How exactly is this card OP? I know I'm not the only one in thinking this since every time I've seen a thread about this card there are usually people defending it.

3) Why was Exploder Wizard SS nerfed? Personally, I've always found the SS to be pretty meh.

4) Astaforce and Miandela SS were nerfed (which I agree with, 3+ sp advantage is too much), but Psycho soldier SS was left untouched? Psycho Soldier SS is just as bad. What's refess doing with such an uncharacteristic SS anyway?

There might've been some other things I missed, but overall it seems like everything else is pretty good. Like I said, all in all a good errata, was just wondering about these points.
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