Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby WhiteDragon2 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:45 am

Quigleaf wrote:
WhiteDragon2 wrote:You do know alteil is not a TCG right? Comparing it to other online games it is in fact rather expensive (45 bucks for only a really small part of the game).


Eh…

Quigleaf wrote:Alteil is a CCG (with no trade aspect so far). There are thousands of other CCG's and TCG's. The more popular of them are M:tG and YGO. (Magic: The Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh!, respectively).


Kinda… yeah?
Reading. Do it, and do it well.

My reading ability is fine, however if you look it up, TCG and CCG are different words for the same thing and alteil isn't a TCG:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectible_card_game
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/628209/ ... en-ccg-tcg
http://alteil.apocoplay.com/forum/viewt ... =19&t=2298
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby Quigleaf » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:28 am

WhiteDragon2 wrote:
Quigleaf wrote:
WhiteDragon2 wrote:You do know alteil is not a TCG right? Comparing it to other online games it is in fact rather expensive (45 bucks for only a really small part of the game).


Eh…

Quigleaf wrote:Alteil is a CCG (with no trade aspect so far). There are thousands of other CCG's and TCG's. The more popular of them are M:tG and YGO. (Magic: The Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh!, respectively).


Kinda… yeah?
Reading. Do it, and do it well.

My reading ability is fine, however if you look it up, TCG and CCG are different words for the same thing and alteil isn't a TCG:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectible_card_game
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/628209/ ... en-ccg-tcg
http://alteil.apocoplay.com/forum/viewt ... =19&t=2298


Even if Wikipedia and other respectable sources have equated TCG's to CCG's, the words that compose those acronyms still have a meaning. People's use of those might have been deviated a long from those terms' intended purposes, but the subtle (if hard to notice due to everyday use) difference is still there.

Do you remember when the TCG term originated? It was to avoid potential lawsuits from WotC due to its M:tG franchise. I believe Topps, Upperdeck and Decipher were the first companies that had to come up with alternative definitions, which in turn derived from even more terms (for fear of others' lawsuits). We witnessed in the 1997-2000 period a massive corporative circlejerk that ended when TCG became the new standard term.

Years later (2003?), WotC showed how aggressive they can be when they sued Nintendo over the Pokémon card game. They made clear that threats of lawsuits were completely serious.

After the publication of the reviewed Reserved List (don't remember the exact year, but 2002 kinda rings into my head), M:tG's term of choice was TCG (yes, from CCG to TCG) to help players to understand the changes and how did those affected the game.
Does this mean that M:tG was previously untradeable? No.
Does this mean that M:tG was no longer a collectible? No.
Then, what's the difference? None. The game is exactly the same, what changed was a relatively unknown policy used by the company that makes it.

So, if for us players the terms are interchangeable (and companies can label their games whatever they want), what is the real difference between a TCG and a CCG?
The word meanings.

Sans marketing and legal interests, the words 'Trading' and 'Collectible' still have a purpose in their acronyms. The words still retain their definitions, regardless of current trends. There were a few actual CCG's (with no trade aspect whatsoever) that labeled themselves all sorts of stuff: BCG (Battle Card Game), XCG (Expandable Card Game), ICG (Interactive Card Game)…

Yet, the difference should be obvious: TCG's are meant to be collectively and individually exchangeable. CCG's could, but the main point of a CCG are their collectable characteristics.

So, we end up with Alteil being a Collectible Card Game, with no Trade aspect whatsoever. You can completely say Alteil is not a TCG. But hard to say it's not a CCG, because it fits the acronym's meaning to the letter.

Excuse me for the harsh tone in my previous comment, there were no ill intentions there. It's just infuriating to have to repeat myself.

TL;DR
It's all about the literal meanings of the acronyms, not about their actual, corporatively-corrupted uses.
(BTW, someone needs to clarify that Wiki's article, since there seems a lot of original research material there).
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby Scientiafide » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:14 pm

Looks like Gon strikes again. I'm not even going to take that response seriously. I can't help but wonder, though, why a man would spend an exorbitant amount of time on a forum for a game he doesn't play anymore (it's been what, a year since he's played), and that he claims he doesn't even like anymore.

Anyway, it seems the argument I'm hearing is, "$40 isn't that much; the problem is what you're getting for the $40, it's not enough content." Isn't that the same thing as saying the prices are too high? If someone were to charge you $5 for a single stick of gum, would your attitude be, "Oh I have a job, $5 is pretty affordable," or "$5 for a single stick? Are you crazy?"
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:32 pm

Scientiafide wrote:Looks like Gon strikes again. I'm not even going to take that response seriously. I can't help but wonder, though, why a man would spend an exorbitant amount of time on a forum for a game he doesn't play anymore (it's been what, a year since he's played), and that he claims he doesn't even like anymore.

High entertainment value! Plus I spend too much time reading academic journal articles and need a break now and then.

I was commenting on how much money people are willing to spend on hobbies and how that relationship is moderated by profession. Thus, in answering the question of how affordable this game is, it matters for whom it is affordable, and for whom it is not.
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby Callonia » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:29 pm

Scientiafide wrote:Looks like Gon strikes again. I'm not even going to take that response seriously. I can't help but wonder, though, why a man would spend an exorbitant amount of time on a forum for a game he doesn't play anymore (it's been what, a year since he's played), and that he claims he doesn't even like anymore.


Romdeau doesn't play anymore. But he errata'd martial artists to autowin against all of refess sphere, evil guy.

Logress doesn't play anymore. Loves falkow and is happy to know that falkow autowins against 99% of rushes, evil guy.

gaogaigirl doesn't play anymore. Likes refess and wasseir, possibly a good person.

Lonestrikersomething doesn't play anymore. I don't know anything about him so i'm guessing he likes fiertesin soul combo supported by EN field of doom, evil guy.

Callonia has quit alteil but still plays more duels in folrart arena than four people i listed above me. Likes Solar kingdom and QQs over blatantly OP stuff, Evil or good or scrub guy your pick not mine.


So lay off gonfreeces over attacks at him not playing anymore, the people in power doesn't even play in folrart arena anymore therefore they don't know what it feels like to play in folrart arena anymore. Because if you're gonna attack gonfreeces over not playing anymore, then please include everyone else too thanks.

I doubt newbies here know but if you beat a GM in duel in folrart arena, you win a random 3* card! ;D

Last time GMs dueled in folrart arena was back in 2009 or 2010, so you're been missing out on TBs from GMs for like good 3-4 years now.
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby Aoi » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:30 pm

I just wanted to add that I saw romdeau play a couple of matches like a week or so ago, but your right in that they don't really play consistantly, also yeah since im somewhat newer than most of the active forum roamers, I had no idea gm battles gave 3* cards or that they even battled. Heard it from a gm around december-january, I believe it was dave, haven't seen him for awhile.
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby Romdeau » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:29 pm

I usually play during hours most of NA is asleep. Thanks for paying attention to my gaming habits though.
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby Shirozaki » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:45 pm

Romdeau wrote:I usually play during hours most of NA is asleep. Thanks for paying attention to my gaming habits though.

How convenient. So which cards were you responsible for this time? I want to know before I reserve judgement so I don't get any "Not my fault!" answers again.
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby Romdeau » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:48 pm

My other job is an overnight shift so yes it is convenient for me.

Edit: You know what, I just realized I haven't seen you play in over a year, so it seems a little hypocritical to me for you to be spouting any kind of criticism in this matter.
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Re: Financial Rundown: EX Chromatic Forces

Postby Quigleaf » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:52 pm

Scientiafide wrote:Anyway, it seems the argument I'm hearing is, "$40 isn't that much; the problem is what you're getting for the $40, it's not enough content." Isn't that the same thing as saying the prices are too high?


Is definitely not the same.

I do not mind paying $40 for something I like this much and from where I get this much entertainment.

The EX Chromatic Forces Full Box is not attractive enough, if the only benefit I get is to save 100G, because then I will simply pay for the ones I like the most, wait for a better bundle or a product that benefits me more as an Alteil player and purchase it. As a quick example, the current EX Chromatic Forces Full Box is not attractive enough for me to buy it while I can wait and purchase the Easter Egg Box that will help me get the Seasonal Marchare and a bunch of other rewards plus a bunch of 4* and 5* that will give me more access to other decks than this EX release.

And that definitely does not mean I will not pay $40 for something Alteil offers. Au contraire, I am more than willing and able to do it so we as players (both free-to-players and investing players) can keep enjoying this fantastic game for what I hope will be many, many years.

When I say "this release has not enough value" I am not saying "prices are too high". I would prefer if the Developers made a EX Full Box that costed $40 but gave me more and better choices (more cards, or alternate art variants, or even little things like Avatar stuff) than paying $30 for the same box (well, $30 surely sounds tempting, but that's not the point).

- - - - -

I will be offering my opinion on each release from a financial vantage point in these "Financial Rundown" threads, with the objective of helping new Iczers get the most bang for their bucks. Knowing when, and what to buy is more important than how much you are able to spend. Maximizing opportunities of enjoyment in this game is my goal.

After reading several noted Iczer's reactions (since I have been unable to test them, so take this with a grain of salt), my advice is simple: if you will use them all immediately, go for the EX Box. If you won't, wait for the Easter Egg box and recycle as needed.

If your budget is limited, I'd highly advise for you to go for 3x of any of these. Gowen and Lawtia seem both definitely the better choices here, since EX Maggie can work in a wide variety of decks, and Lawtia's EX cards lay the ground for interesting combinations (Undead Game Over, anyone?) that seem to be currently favored by the development team. Keep a close eye on the new EX Priestess of Madness by the way.
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