Buncles Rework

User suggestions to improve the game

Buncles Rework

Postby TheMindWraith » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:53 pm

I feel like buncles are currently too strong, Specifically in their ability to swarm a field and then you cant kill them very easily.
They give eachother damage and defense which adds up too high, also they Red and Violet generals action skills need an SP cost, I mean, if you hurt buncles the violet general does a serious amount of damage and a full heal, then Red General Takes their full hp and adds that to his attack, those hit for usually around 60-70 damage each with 0 cost. Plus they are targeted.

Also, Obsidion carbuncle full heal is garbage, it can heal or revive on card And its not even hard to get proc'd it has 20 HP.

The only semi succesful file i have seen is Take to the Sky with a Mildoro doing field wipes, but even then it is hard because of Obision heals and Red General Heal. and a Well played CMD file could hold their own maybe, but these files are expensive to make.

Solution: Lower The health of Violet General by 5-10. Make the start skill Red General only give 5 Defense. And make the Generals action skills either Heal/Damage less (by half the damage, or dont add the AT portion to the damage) and add an SP cost.

A full Heal Plus Pinpointed damage at 0 cost is pretty overpowered.

These are just my opinions, please Reply with logical and Serious thoughts. Thanks for reading!
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby shadowsketch » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:40 pm

One big fix I can see happening is having Ruby Eater not heal/buff himself. As it stands, if Ruby Eater can't be taken out in one turn, he'll continue to be a problem and this is rough considering buncle frontlines. I also think his action skill should be limited by RNG rather than be able to hit any enemy unit so that the opposing field has a chance to setup with weaker support units.

The current popular build of carbuncles forces the opponent to counter buncle defenses by committing to the field and takes advantage of that with Chamail SS/full heal (2nd Shrine Knight, Olvaus for example). I don't think the fair solution to buncles is to weaken the buncles offensively (ok besides what I said about Ruby Eater), but rather make them easier to kill.
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby WhiteDragon2 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:58 pm

The full heal plus pinpointed damage at 0 cost is indeed very good and I'd like it to at least become random, but putting a unit in the 40 hp range is a significant nerf with all the 40 damage SS around.

The problem with synergy files is always that if you can prevent them from setting up they're generally weak, while if you can't prevent the setup and can't OHKO (multiple) units a turn you might aswell give up. If you can beat Ruby Eater in one turn consistently the buncle player may aswell give up, but if buncles can consistantly heal back up...

SS like chiruru and assasin are generally a good way to help fight buncles (for rushes), with 2x40 damage or gafc SS early game. Rasam is hardly ever a bad SS, and works well against them too (for a lot of files). Any card that can buff attack like kurina and annarose can also help, aswell as any unit that can do major damage with a single skill/attack. Falkow can just use return problem units while having units that can OHKO buncles (sea serpent, grim count, WK if sphere level is high enough, Urgrant,...).

It's currently a popular file that gives very annoying matches to files that don't have what it takes to take them down, but a lot of care should be taken such that the file doesn't lose out too much power against the files that are already good against it (or we'll get another file like the refess prebuild that people only buy to get lappiere). I think Command dolls are likely better than buncles as a synergy file and would get simelar complaints if more people had the cards to play it. Orks might also get those complaints if more people had them. Also CMD dolls should probably have easy wins against buncles (hard to tell for sure, as I can't test it).

As I haven't been playing recently I don't have data on whether they are really too strong at the moment or if they are balanced enough. If you want a decent chance against them without going for something expensive like CMD dolls, the sea serpent prebuild may be useful (shrine knight prebuild may also work with a proper SS lineup). If you have the proper rares you can even make files like augments have a good win rate against buncles, the problem is many people don't have acces to those cards, just like how many people don't have acces to CMD dolls.
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby Aoi » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:21 pm

Well the only things I really want to see nerfed on the buncles to make them less op.

Is violet gen's start that does agl -1, because the buncles already have just about all their units at 4 agl, so she makes it so you just about never go before them.
Perhaps make violet gen's skill random.

Obsidian can lose that base 10 def. :I

Also a I kinda want Jade's auto to be limited to his rng, instead of rangeless. But that is a rather minor nitpick, which comes from the amount of times I watched marchare get sniped with that auto.
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby gadu » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:05 pm

Annarose: 50 DMG to three units and opponent gets +2 SP
Balmoa: 50 DMG to two units and opponent gets +1 SP
Doll: 50 DMG to two units and you get -1 SP

Chamail: 50 DMG to opponent's field & 1 more LP for field wide buff. Opponent gets nothing but death.

Rom: "It's on my radar, but we're not going to do anything about it. If we ever do, you can endure Overdose calibur wait times before something happens. We need to make sure we have enough data before we act. However, rest assured, we will never use that data to nerf cards or files that are outperforming the cards we choose to nerf *coughZUcoughUrgrant* Besides, Logress won't let us do our jobs. He gets the final decision. Everything is always someone else's fault."
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby Shirozaki » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:08 pm

gadu wrote: Everything is always someone else's fault."

;th2
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby Saorin » Wed May 08, 2013 9:44 am

I agree wholeheartedly. The thing is that buncles are not only bulky/tanky, they are also buffing AND healing AND dealing major damage. It's just too much and Violet is just insane. She is giving Max HP on open, healing WHILE dealing major damage with pinpoint for 0 SP AND robbing the opponent of 1 Agi as a start skill. While doing all that, she can take a beating with her HP, gets buffed and has pretty good agi.
People cried when Vosrot could heal 10 HP per turn and give 10 DEF (once!) on open and a LV Pinpoint skill that was dependent on lv. Violet is at least as bad as that, and I think worse. Cries for a nerf as well.
It's really unnerving :<
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby GonFreeces31 » Wed May 08, 2013 9:47 am

Saorin wrote:People cried when Vosrot could heal 10 HP per turn and give 10 DEF (once!) on open and a LV Pinpoint skill that was dependent on lv. Violet is at least as bad as that, and I think worse. Cries for a nerf as well.
It's really unnerving :<

People aren't prejudiced against Refess so not that many people care about OP Refess cards.
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby Khiruki » Wed May 08, 2013 12:21 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:People aren't prejudiced against Refess so not that many people care about OP Refess cards.


Buncles are an exception. I think even Callonia hates Buncles.
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Re: Buncles Rework

Postby GonFreeces31 » Wed May 08, 2013 12:39 pm

Yeah that's true. Buncles seem a lot like Yordles in LoL. Filthy vermin that only appeal to a very special type of person...

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