Mirage Master?

Everything that doesn't go anywhere else.

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby gabotheplaya » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:12 pm

An easy way to think about it is...

2 pulls of at least 1* = 10 gran guaranteed.

possibility of pulling something higher than 1* = 5 gran premium cost.

for a total of 15 gran minimum.

Ofcourse this doesn't take into account preparation for sales and shop events which free players normally manage to save up for... getting it in gran is much less "mind bothering" since you don't need to recycle.

Double pull also bumps the odds of getting low rarity playsets.

tl;dr: 2 pulls, old rates, no need for "if 1* double pull" conditions.
ImageImage
Image
User avatar
gabotheplaya
 
Posts: 851
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:37 pm

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby Dean » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:29 pm

2 pull is interesting but if GM don't like it why not just add an another option in shop below free daily lotto that give you 15 gran instead of a free pull (players choice).

Right now Im "losing" 10 gran each day and I didn't notice free lotto upgrade rate.
Dean
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:16 pm

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby Jazzock » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:33 pm

Dean wrote:Right now Im "losing" 10 gran each day and I didn't notice free lotto upgrade rate.

Rates likely won't be noticed until there's like 1000+ pulls
Self proclaimed user of weirdness, one of the few crazy people to actually use a pure sorceress file...


Image
User avatar
Jazzock
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:33 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby caeser » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:59 am

I'm definitely seeing a upgraded rates. I pulled this last week -

2 star - 3

3 star - 2

5 star - 2

So far this week -

1 star - 1

3 star - 1
Image
User avatar
caeser
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:54 am
Location: Roma

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby gabotheplaya » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:29 pm

caeser wrote:3 star - 2

5 star - 2

So far this week -

3 star - 1


You sir, are a goddanm haxor.
ImageImage
Image
User avatar
gabotheplaya
 
Posts: 851
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:37 pm

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby Anima13 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:09 am

gabotheplaya wrote:
caeser wrote:3 star - 2

5 star - 2

So far this week -

3 star - 1


You sir, are a goddanm haxor.


what gabo wants to say is, that usually the chance of getting more then 1 Card with 3* or higher rarity per week from daily Lotto is very low (even getting one 3*+ is not given). From this point of view getting 4 Cards with 3*+ rarity in a week is an event that feels irrealistic. Due to the extreme low probability gabo decided to to exclude the option of luck and rather question the basic assumptions considering how RNG works.

In this case he decided to got for the assumption "the RNG is not manipulable".
please don't be offended by his conclusion. He is just desperatley trying to explain that irrealistic pull. And we have lots of other assumptions we could question to explain this event.
For example that "RNG is truly random" e.g. being Independent of time, account, individual cardpool, invested gran in game, other peoples pull ect.

--------------
considering the recent changes I would also support the idea of double pull but I am also open for other solutions. The rates for high rarities is something too low to rely on, but probably even worse is the lack of the option "target" instead of random.
To give you an idea: before Mirage master change I could afford myself a pack every week (MMgran+ grind), now I can afford myself a pack ca every 2.5-3 weeks. this is what is meant with the "-10gran per day" in the posts above. I am aware that balancing the income of free players is something difficult, but I find a pack per week was acceptable and something reasonable to aim for (though I know, I tend to be more patient then others, so no idea whether other potential players would think the same way). I hope we can find solution as the current one (that I assume is only short term) is very suboptimal for motivating free players.

I am glad that acoplay addressed issues of MM bugs as ignoring them could have harmed the game too much and I also hope that acoplay will address this issue with the same motivation :D.
User avatar
Anima13
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 10:15 am
Location: somewhere over the rainbow

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby Saorin » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:11 am

Icyglare wrote:You see, this is what I mean Saorin, all of a sudden, OVERWHELMING MAJORITY is 15 gran a day.

In the hidden depths of Alteil forums, there is a topic where one awesome person did a pull once a day and recording his findings for the whole year, listing what he got and what rarity. I don't remember the decimal but it averaged to 7-8gran a day in total.


And still, I'm sorry but I don't see your point!

1: If you want to imply those people are lying and they didn't do the 15 G MM (which isn't really hard with a bit of patience, so I don't see why people wouldn't do it): so what? Not only is it STILL a loss for me, as I actually did the 15G and am now pulling 1*-2* cards from Free Daily Lotto (kudos to pulling 5*...). And also, from a simple objective point of view, it's worse than before, because you could POTENTIALLY earn 15G a day which were then guaranteed (what does it matter who MANY actually did it) whilst now you have to hope to get a 3* from lotto to make up for that - which sadly hasn't happened to me so far.
1.a.: if that is NOT what you're implying... we share the same opinion here, don't we? oO

2: Yes, so that recordings of pulls from daily lotto... only show that it was worse than playing MM. (At least with the not-increased rates then).. so... uhm, isn't that what most people here say?

Also, Anima is right, this is what I tried to point out as well. Getting together the Gran to pull a set has become such a pain in the... neck. -.- Instead here I sit pulling 1* and 2* and hoping that SOMEDAY something decent might come along. And that card I cannot even reduce to coming from a specific pack. Grah. So far, I've only been losing gran.
Image Image
User avatar
Saorin
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:36 am

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby Temaris » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:54 am

Well, I didn't do 15 G MM a day. I did 20, LOL. Well, up until recently at least, as I don't have as much time to burn anymore. 15 G though just takes a couple of minutes to do tops, so yeah, I can't seriously imagine there were many who didn't do 15. Takes much longer to do a duel than MM for 15 typically took, so that's the part I really don't like now. Of course for people who generally play every day, it's a time saver I guess, but for me it's now much more inconvenient.
Temaris
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:30 pm

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby sgtsagara » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:00 am

Icyglare wrote:
sgtsagara wrote:Even at two pulls the odds are that the average free player is going to lose gran in comparison to MM. The overwhelming majority of players who used MM earned 15 gran per day. If we get two free lotto pulls per day then you can expect to get two 1-star cards which recycle for 5 gran each. That would be 10 gran per day which is obviously better than getting 5 gran from one pull. But that still takes gran away from the free players by comparison.


You see, this is what I mean Saorin, all of a sudden, OVERWHELMING MAJORITY is 15 gran a day.

In the hidden depths of Alteil forums, there is a topic where one awesome person did a pull once a day and recording his findings for the whole year, listing what he got and what rarity. I don't remember the decimal but it averaged to 7-8gran a day in total.

There's a reason the majority of players earned 15 each day through MM. And that's because earning 15 gran a day in MM wasn't difficult. I have four accounts and would get 15 gran for each account in about 15 minutes total on a typical day. The 10 gran version was almost an auto win. While the 20 gran version was doable, but simply takes time as you were going to have to try and fail several times. The 15 gran version was the sweet spot in the middle.

Another problem with the removal of MM is that you are unable to earn gran if you cannot get a game. For Alteil hounds that isn't a problem. But for more casual players who may not have a lot of time every day to dedicate to Alteil that is a problem. As I said I have four different accounts and would never have a problem getting 15 gran for each in a day and doing so very quickly. But since the change I've tried to sign on and been unable to get a game more than once with some of my accounts. That means I got zero gran that day.

Earning 15 gran a day was just enough to keep a free player's head above water provided that you saved your gran and spent it wisely. But the prospect of being a free player now seems like punishment. Earning only 5 or 10 gran per day is not enough to stay competitive. And as a result I really haven't had a desire to play. Which is a shame because this is my favorite online card game that I've ever played.
sgtsagara
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:22 pm

Re: Mirage Master?

Postby WhiteDragon2 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:57 am

sgtsagara wrote:There's a reason the majority of players earned 15 each day through MM. And that's because earning 15 gran a day in MM wasn't difficult. I have four accounts and would get 15 gran for each account in about 15 minutes total on a typical day. The 10 gran version was almost an auto win. While the 20 gran version was doable, but simply takes time as you were going to have to try and fail several times. The 15 gran version was the sweet spot in the middle.

Another problem with the removal of MM is that you are unable to earn gran if you cannot get a game. For Alteil hounds that isn't a problem. But for more casual players who may not have a lot of time every day to dedicate to Alteil that is a problem. As I said I have four different accounts and would never have a problem getting 15 gran for each in a day and doing so very quickly. But since the change I've tried to sign on and been unable to get a game more than once with some of my accounts. That means I got zero gran that day.

Earning 15 gran a day was just enough to keep a free player's head above water provided that you saved your gran and spent it wisely. But the prospect of being a free player now seems like punishment. Earning only 5 or 10 gran per day is not enough to stay competitive. And as a result I really haven't had a desire to play. Which is a shame because this is my favorite online card game that I've ever played.

You do not need to get a game against human players, bots work fine too. You also only need the match to go untill turn 6. To optimize your efficiency you should duel luminous (the NPC using big refess) and return the first 2 monsters he plays. Just skip every other turn and surrender at turn 6. It takes about 1 minute and 30 seconds to lose the duel. (The reason for luminous and returns is that he only plays 2 monsters in the first 6 turns and the game length increases as the number of monsters on the field increases. Make sure a falkow file is your first slot to save you a few seconds picking the right file and preload the shop while dueling for optimal efficiency) Thus this is actualy slightly more doable for people that don't have the time to duel daily (as 4 times MM in 15 minutes means 3 minutes and 45 seconds on average).

The problem I have with it is the chance to get only 5 gran daily when not lucky, thus why I preposed to at least increase the pull size (such that you're at least guaranteed to attain 10 gran) rather than improving the chance of rares.
"Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind.'
User avatar
WhiteDragon2
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:07 am

PreviousNext

Return to Alteil General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests

cron