Crafting system eh? Let's see..

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Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby cheongzewei » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:00 am

No.
No. Seriously No.
Just no.

Plz Gooby.

What? you want me to explain it? Allright, fine.. Just a second..

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THERE!
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby Ropey » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:13 am

With AH you will need an incentive to recycle. Apparently this curbs inflation. I am of a wait and see opinion. I really want to know the other features that are deemed too quirky for westerners.

And anyway, I told you that players are not the only people that ignore the forums. If you have something to say do it in kickstarter comments. You get prizes for spotting bugs(Not that they ever give me any!)
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby Khiruki » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:22 am

Looking closer...

Yeah, I have to say hell no to the "Buy More Cauldrons" and the crafting timer. That just screams generic pay-to-win Facebook game. Random recipes may be okay if there is a decent drop rate for them, and the material requirements for a card are relatively lower.
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby Romdeau » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:08 pm

First of all, do NOT take any of what I'm about to say as Apocoplay's official stance or anything. This is merely just my opinion with the information I know.

There will be an auction house. The exact details have not been panned out, but it will function similar to E-bay. However, there is an inherent problem here if we have a shop that provides unlimited supply-it eventually means you have 10 million Cutters of the Cord floating around and nobody even wants to spend 5 gran on them. To be financially sustainable with a Auction House model, we have to get rid of the old recycler. So what's going to replace it? An alternative method for players to pinpoint their cards. I have no details on this system other then 1.) Yes there will be several different materials 2.) Yes there will be wait times to utilize this method (something like 15-30 minutes) and 3.) Having more 'cauldron's just allows you to use the system more times per day. Players will be able to buy additional (something like up to a cap of 12) cauldrons with FM and gran. Obviously, it's going to cost way more FM then gran. Again, very little information and it's very broad.

So, just to clarify this is going to be a pinpoint system. If you have enough raw materials, you can pinpoint any card you want. Point card rules apply-meaning, you can't use this system to get EX cards or special event cards (seasonal for instance) as far as I know. Having this system in place not only solves our inflation problem, it also creates another method to pinpoint cards that previously did not exist. However, if we make it too easy to use, we will take a hit fiscally. Most free to play models incorporate some kind of waiting or delayed gratification into their games. It's just simply the reality of it. If you make the game too easy to collect through free methods, then we would be out of business within 3 months. The most obvious example to me is League of Legend's rune page set up. You can either spend something like 20 dollars for 7 rune pages instantly, or you can spend several months worth of IP (free currency) to unlock the same content. Same rule applies to unlocking their champions.

And to my knowledge, these will be the primary methods of acquiring new cards: Shop (similar to what we have now), Auction House, Crafting, and earning cards by playing. So it's not like crafting is your only source of collecting (or even pinpointing) new cards. I do not know what is happening to the point card system. Official tournaments should also have some nice winnings, but they will probably have a entrance (gran) fee, so not everyone will want to participate.
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby Ropey » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:25 pm

Thank you so much for stepping into the "No-Mans Land" and clarifying this.
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby cheongzewei » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:37 am

thanks for the reply.
Really, thanks.

You took out the worst argument i have, aka no pinpoint, so i'll settle down and see for now. It really depends on the rates, which is very hard for you all to decide. (and myself as I think on what the rates of mats/5 star should be)

But I think i can argue against you using League as an example though. No one. Every, Uses rune pages (extras) serious players just remove all the runes and replace em easily. Runes are earned by hard work.

Still, it's a touch concerning that you're removing the old recycle system. I like it, Sometimes I just need that extra gran to buy a box... and if you remove this, it'll be harder for players to micro manage their gran buyings.
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby Callonia » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:50 pm

I have looked at the screenshot and judging from what I can see from single screenshot.... I already hate it.

1 hour to deconstruction a card?

Instant hate. Its too chinese. PAY GRAN AND DECONSTRUCT CARD INSTANT! China = Pay 2 win.

Sword girls online crafting system is superior to this... stuff.

About sword girls online, I could craft double rares with no problems. No waiting ****.

Also, deconstruction is likely a bad idea because when you get hacked that hacker could just deconstruct all your cards out of malice even when he can't make money off them.

I understand its still in development but that screenshot alone is pay2win from just simply looking at it.

And if I remember correctly from my experiences with Gold boxes... it literally would take you days and days to deconstruct all the junk 5 gran cards that you get while trying to get at least one playset of 5* cards. Pity be upon people who have bad luck.

Although I don't mind a crafting system but it really depends on how gud it is.

In Sword Girls online, fight all day long for fun and finally get materials you need to craft Eisenwane? You get her nao, none of the one hour waiting or 24 hour waiting ****. After all the person already waited by grinding battles for the materials why punish the person to wait even more longer? Is excessive.

If this such system was implemented in SGO I would've never bothered with SGO and never discovered the awesome that is Eisenwane.

Edit: What's wrong with recycling the cutter of the cord for 5 gran?
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby Ropey » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:30 pm

I am interested in this Sword Girls crafting you speak of. I think we need comparisons from other games. I am sorry Cal. but when I played it I found the system confusing I think? and the game was pants which is by the by.
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby Callonia » Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:32 am

Basically you can do pvp or pve to get materials.

For example, if you did a pvp battle against a random player and won, you get eight. If you lost you get four if you fight to the end if you troll quit like at turn nine you get nothing. Still won't stop players from troll quitting on you if you run OP decks though.

Well I can be nice and give you links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIOUKW71 ... ature=plcp

http://steparu.com/reviews/mmo-misc-rev ... ine-review

Proof of SGO awesome just watch until like 42 or 44 seconds and you will see that player craft the card and get it instantly, none of this deconstruction for 1 hour bs.
Sure, There is no deconstruction feature but that's because why would you want to? You get everything you will need to construct.

Number of materials might scare you but whatever.

I have crafted one of Crux Nemesis Luthica.
http://sword-girls.info/cards/crux-nemesis-luthica

And three of Sword Girls Luthica.
http://sword-girls.info/cards/sword-girls-luthica

The only RNG variable in the craft process is your battle drops.

And I even managed to craft this card.. Crux Command. Its gud spell.
http://sword-girls.info/cards/crux-command

Superior when compared to The General's Order in terms of power, only thing the general's order have Crux's Command beat is the removal protection.

You got materials for it? Go ahead and make it, no silly deconstruction time waster whom only existence is to make you lose time on purpose and want you to spend money and buy the cards instead and increase the amount of time you need in order to craft a card even more. Free players that refuse to spend money by any means will be turned off by this single feature alone. Then alteil suffer the population problem again.

Even a hentai game have better crafting system than alteil as things stand by that single screenshot. I will name it if people is interested.

Man, just talking about sword girls online is enough to make me miss mah crux knights. :(

Lukif + Eisenwane... now that was funny to watch the AI flounder around and fail hard. And few players xD
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Re: Crafting system eh? Let's see..

Postby Anima13 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:18 pm

For the first, I don't plan to discuss here whether such a system would be good for us or not. Certainly for such a semi pinpoint system cost wise it has to offer more then what a simple recycling or buying a pack would and it should provide fun itself, else there will be no motivation to use it.

But beyond that my main issue here is that:

this system you offer feels completely alien to the alteil universe.

I will try to give you some examples which aren't meant as concrete suggestions but inspiration material (esp as you may need A2 story knowledge to fit this to japan) helping me to describe my issues.
What in my opinion your system need is:

1. Story wise integration of the system in alteil.

Why can iczers find such materials and craft/forge cards, something they never could before? The sudden appearance feels forced creating resistance to accept the feature something you don’t want.
example: it could happen that Elgandi (or take any other famous person passing through some dimensional portal) appears in our world and offers us advanced knowledge and tools he collected during his time in alteil. He explains us that we can directly summon the participants of past events If we sharpen our senses and collect remained signs/ traces left back by these people (mat drop during fights). He would cover the introduction of the system, offer help and be present at the crafting page as a person of reference.

2 Crafting materials are uggly and have 0 reference to alteil story

Ores/minerals? are you serious? it looks like from some old dark RPG. They are identical (please don’t come with recolouring, that always feels cheap in games), look like a snail and have names like someone had no ideas and used some random name generator. We have only one true mining related thing and that’s the goblins. So you could add one "goblins ore" as mineral max and thats it. Let me give you a few examples for mats:
daniels notes, piece of a broken sword/shield, alraunas hair, big yellow brick (refess and their walls), mage doll parts, corpse from a distant war, a broken lamp (wisp, reference to a1), shade in the bottle, a heros soul , "destroyed by noze", "lost" (confused person asking: I've been returned where I am? :D), random burning building, faerie wing, mechanical parts, pretty clothes, lost love letter also possible feelings like fear and despair, chaos or hope. You see there are lots of possibilities but they have to be alteil related, not monotone equally picking up the themes of the 4-5 spheres and please not the same drawings recoloured several times. I am sure you can do it better.

3 more diversity/ better selling motivation

like demonstrated in previous posts, your money spending options are just way too obvious and trigger "ripoff alarm" too early. For example the cauldrons are all the same they are super boring. Reward the people with art and diversity of mechanism. So you could pick several favored mages out from alteil story and make it their cauldron:
eg fellanas cauldron (a huge pile of mess in the background on top of it a black cat is standing), mage X's (character or unit doesnt matter) cauldron you could even leave that theme and make altars you have to put the mats on and burn or graves where you bury the mats in, use places from alteil story and so on.
Of course art alone would not help, you could assign to these different arts different but overall balanced crafting features so they become asymmetric lottos or strong pinpointers for certain types of cards (higher amounts of mats unlock higher lvl skill of item).
Examples for skills: sphere tendency/aversion, higher pinpoint if you get a certain rarity/lvl (requires an "I want you" list) , rarity lock out, reward for crafting, lower use of material X or y and higher use of material z, higher chance for card with quality X (close skill, action skill female, subtypeX... ), duplication chance/different crafting time and so on.
And then I would make these cauldrons/shrines whatever fm grindable but with increasing cost so that you have to take priorities short term but don’t have to with gran + eventual limited but expandable crafting slots (ts almost sounds like what you have now D:). It’s important to find a balance between motivation to pay and demotivation of the free/low budget player base.
I wouldn’t make the decomposing process itself time dependent, but if you really want to further limit the crafting process in time, you could introduce a process where you have to pick a random card (rarity level irrelevant) and clear off the memories/ stories attached to that card so you can get a blank you can fill with a new one.

Thats for the first. I understand that you don’t want to waste too much time on japans tasks but this was a bit weak. Alteil is a quality product :P.
hush hush off to work.

Uff Anima has spoken
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